Shaft Droop

[Aging Boomer]

Does anybody else thing that the OEMs overcompensate for shaft droop with graphite shafts and make the drivers and fairway woods too upright?  I do.  If you're old enough to have played with real wooden woods, you know that solid persimmon or laminated maple drivers used to come standard with a 43 or 43½" shaft, and even with the shorter shaft, the standard lie angle was 55°.  Now driver shafts are at least 45" long, and instead of having flatter lies, or even just keeping the lies the same for graphite shaft droop, they actually make the lie angles much stronger.

I wish titanium came with the same options as real wood.   You used to be able to custom order woods and actually specify the lie angles, face angles, and loft you wanted, and sometimes even the amount of bulge and roll.  You sure can't do that with metal, no matter how many trick hosels they give you.  In fact, for those few who would still play real wood, Louisville Golf still does take those custom orders.   I just don't imagine that it's a very big demographic.

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by Aging Boomer

Does anybody else thing that the OEMs overcompensate for shaft droop with graphite shafts and make the drivers and fairway woods too upright?

Yes and no.  For one, shot misdirection from the lie angle is proportional to the loft of the club.  With drivers having the flatest (in terms of loft) the affect is really minimal.  Today's drivers are now being built anywhere from 45" to 46.5" as "standard", and with the lighter shafts that are installed into 200g (+/) heads there is going to be a little more droop than a steel shaft at 42" - 43".  I think the other reason would be the natural slice tendency that the majority of amateurs players have, and having a driver more upright is one more little thing the OEM's can do to try to help correct for it.

I think the argument could be made either way.... it's either more upright to compensate for today's longer, lighter shafts; or it's more upright to help the average Joe who's miss is to the right.

I play my driver (W/58° lie) at 43.5", so it really isn't an annoyance since at that length it isn't pointing sky.

Originally Posted by Aging Boomer

I wish titanium came with the same options as real wood.   You used to be able to custom order woods and actually specify the lie angles, face angles, and loft you wanted, and sometimes even the amount of bulge and roll.  You sure can't do that with metal, no matter how many trick hosels they give you.  In fact, for those few who would still play real wood, Louisville Golf still does take those custom orders.   I just don't imagine that it's a very big demographic.

You can specify any head to be hand picked from almost any component manufacturer that is worth a turd.  In the custom built world, the builder would use face angle as a compensation for lie.

[Aging Boomer]

Missing to the right is a problem when it's a dead push, but when it's an unintentional slice, it's merely the product of a very unathletic swing.  If one continually casts the club over the top, one is making no effort whatever to correct it.  It's not rocket science, honest.  Controlling a natural hook is much harder.

Another problem is that OEMs act as if everybody with a slower swing speed is a slicer.  If a driver has high loft, it also has a closed face and an upright lie angle.  Apparently, there's no such thing as somebody with a good swing who's merely lost swing speed to age or reduced flexibility.

Fortunately, there are a few manufacturers who'll custom grind irons and wedges.   Drivers and fairways woods are harder.  I'm getting by with some Henry-Griffitts custom clubs, but even they don't compare to my Louisville custom wooden woods as far an accurate fit goes.   Right now, nobody is making, and apparently except for me, nobody is even asking for, metalwoods with loft, lie, and face angle specs similar to the old wooden clubs.  The original TaylorMade metalwood line from the early 1980s had such specs, but just about nothing since.  It's not going to change, but it would be nice if just one manufacturer went after that niche market. I should consider reshafting and regripping those thirty year oldTaylorMade fairway woods.  The drivers are just too small.

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by Aging Boomer

Missing to the right is a problem when it's a dead push, but when it's an unintentional slice, it's merely the product of a very unathletic swing.  If one continually casts the club over the top, one is making no effort whatever to correct it.  It's not rocket science, honest.  Controlling a natural hook is much harder.

I am meaning a slice, which the large majority of amateurs do.  And it is almost always a product of a swing fault.  But the OEM's know that most people will try to buy a better game than learn one.

Originally Posted by Aging Boomer

Another problem is that OEMs act as if everybody with a slower swing speed is a slicer.  If a driver has high loft, it also has a closed face and an upright lie angle.  Apparently, there's no such thing as somebody with a good swing who's merely lost swing speed to age or reduced flexibility.

OEM's are more concerned with profit than they are the small % of better players,  All one has to do is look at the stuff that's being thrown in our faces every 6 months.

You probably aren't going to find the club you want from TM, Callaway, etc.  Heck even the one hand-made truly custom metal head I could find was over $600, and the flattest lie they would make was 58°!

[WUTiger]

At impact, the club shaft had bowed downward and shortens slightly. This occurs with steel or graphite shafts. This is one reason some pros advise players to rock the club slightly on its heel at address - the bowing will being it back to square to ground at impact.

Quote:

I am meaning a slice, which the large majority of amateurs do.  And it is almost always a product of a swing fault.  But the OEM's know that most people will try to buy a better game than learn one.

Two things which amateurs do to miss right:

* An over-the-top swing motion, which produces a slice or - on some days - a low pull.

* Bad alignment. Rather than aligning the feet parallel to the line of flight (railroad tracks), some amateurs line up their feet toward the target. This guarantees a miss right (for right-handers).