gmbtempe

There is creating lag, then there is delivering lag to impact, there are not created equal. Ricky Fowler dumps all his lag and stalls and barely can hold onto his alignments without flipping. Carl Peterson has little lag compared to Ricky yet delivers the lag that he does have through impact more efficiently.

Big difference with the right shoulder IM0, one more draw based and one more fade based.

When I first saw moradman's comment about 50 instructors I thought that was a bit harsh but thinking back on it maybe it is not. I think golf instruction for the most part is horrible out there. What should the student get if he pays hard earned money, at a very high rate, works his butt off, yet does not get better? Should they get a refund? If they say something to the instructor is the first thing the instructor thinks is "you aint got any talent to hit a ball anyways"? Its supply and demand to me, its worth whatever someway will pay. As the student though in the game of golf instruction goes I might have to spend 1500 an hour after you add up all the wasted lessons just to find the right guy who is charging the 100. As the student its really not that fun and in comparison to other professional industries the variation between individuals is much more extreme.

Would you say his shoulder turn would fits Flat or Rotated? Is it flatter than you would like? If it is flatter, how does he keep his head so centered?

? for you Mike, How quickly should the right arm start bending on the backswing? Does the right arm bend and arms start moving to the right, then the left shoulders starts kicking down. I am trying to figure out why using a steeper shoulder turn the hand path is taking a "slightly" out path before starting its elevation to the top.

I have seen this term thrown around a couple times on message boards in some SnT and Morad discussions. I have never heard it defined, does it have any actual meaning in terms of the measurement system that SnT uses? Is it as simple as not have enough shoulder turn in the backswing? Thanks.

A good read about taking it from the range to the course, pre shot routine, and just basic mental approach to the game is the book by Annika's teachers Pia Nilsson and Lynn Marriot, Every Shot Must Have a Purpose.

I see these guys go down, and then down some more. I think most people, at least pretty decent players, do down into impact from the top but why do players raise up in the backswing, is there a common link to why that happens?

Iacas, Looking around the net for some video of students of the swing who are a little bigger, maybe older, and less flexible and what they may be doing to reach this position? I tried in earnest to get to this position yesterday and I think I about tipped over to do it, I figure I must not be doing something correctly?

The guy who has Hogan's Secret figured out always seems to be the person publishing the next book.

Might be a great teacher but I kept waiting for him to start talking about the Moe Norman single axis swing with all the most efficient talk. He demonstrates a noticeable plane shift but listening to the words it almost seems contrary to his beliefs.

If you have say 70% of your weight left at the top of the swing is it hard to rotate your pelvis open? Is the solution to this problem a more aggressive tuck of the butt? If your weight is left as I describe is it harder to square the hips and drive the right shoulder down plane? I would imagine all these issues could affect PA#4? ?

Do you have to be flexible and strong to do a SnT swing? I think you do. I have read if you simply break SnT down its hands in backswing, left shoulder down backswing, and weight left. The weight left everyone can do. I don't think its easy to take your hands deep and turn the left shoulder down. I am not very flexible but still more flexible than many golfers out there and when I do this model it sends the upper COG's left very early in the swing. I see a lot of "well you don't have to do all the pieces" which I believe in, you don't have to do all the pieces in the MORAD model to use the methodolgy, but if the basic tenants of SnT are those I listed above and you can't do them due to flexibility issues then I think its something that could be a concern for a student. It also seems like when I see a pretty good swing on Youtube that is a SnT modeled swing they are usually very young and/or flexible. I have no dog in this fight and have stuck up for SnT way more times than I have been critical.

Even when you have more of a old school move off the ball and someone who does not extend much, they still extend. I grabbed this photo of a cool camera angle in yesterdays LPGA telecast Some extension Lots of extension Sorry for the crap quality, just grabbed them with the camera off the tv

Funny I saw this thread! So I was warming up for my round on Monday on the range and a few yards away an instructor was giving this guy a lesson. The drill he setup was hitting a tee'd up ball off his knees with his driver. I have no idea why really, maybe a plane deal but whatever. So the guy hits the first one, second one, third ONE..............SNAP Brand new R11 shaft snaps as he hits the ground behind the ball. Classic. $50 Golf Lesson costs you a new shaft for your new R11!

The biggest problem people who buy The Golf Machine that I find is that it does not present a "this is the way you should swing and here is how to accomplish it" which is the basis of most golf instruction books. There are just different components of a golf swing and the book lays those out, makes distinctions between the components, and tells you which ones fit with each other, IE someone who drive loads the shaft would benefit stopping the backswing at the Top position rather than the End (club parallel at top).

How do you know if you are over or under rotated? Is there any type of checkpoint for the shoulders in the backswing?

Delete: wrong thread

Yea Erik I was just wondering how that shot fits into the SnT pattern, if it could be accomplished through the SnT pattern from ball position or setup changes, without baseline shifting. Once you get a pattern down, such as SnT, then manipulating baselines is not that difficult, IMO (now head tilts, eye tilts, knee, feet etc, well thats tougher).

I will let Erik answer what is best but instead of looking just at the backswing and downswing planes you should look at impact because that is what is most relavent. Guys like Furyk and Hass are all over the place but at impact they are as on plane as anyone.

There are some variables we could add to the equation and run circles around the numbers but the simple question is it possible to hit a ball that starts straight but falls right in a SnT pattern? I ask as someone who for the life of me am not comfortable aiming left, pushing it, then having it fall right.

I was thinking path=0 with face maybe a degree or so open

Can you hit an in-line fade with a SnT pattern.........or does it have to be a push fade?

If PA 4 and PA 1 dont release correctly then you likely will have too much bend in the right arm at P6, then drop it under plane. Combine that with to much slide of the hips and a head that hangs back it gets very hard not to hit a hook. I have this problem. I work on getting it to the top and feel like there is nothing moving but the arms, feels like right shoulder up as long as possible. edit: wow did not realize this thread was so old..........

This is indeed very troubling. I had a great relationship with Jeff and ordered many of his product, he even sent me one for free after my kid decided to lose it. Also he took time to help me with my swing. I know sometimes it would take some extra time to get them out the door but reading this its absolutely not acceptable business.