TidyFreak

+1

+1 on the camera. Last week my pro loaned me a Swingyde in an attempt to cure me of drastically closing the club face at the start of the take-away. I've seen them around for what seems like years, but never thought I needed one. However, a week on and I'm a sworn convert - it's worked wonders for me :-D TF

Echoing what aimgator says, IMVHO as a 19 'capper I would say that simply hitting as many balls as you can without sufficient understanding of swing mechanics could easily lead you into a golf career lacking in any long-term consistency, or at least will possibly limit the standard of play that you can reach. At worst you could get so frustrated that you quit, which would be a real shame. I personally believe that gaining that understanding is very important. I'd venture to say it's crucial, in fact. How you best gain that knowledge is personal, but again IMHO a pro is the best way, although may take a few tries to find someone that suits you. Books, videos, forums etc. are all potentially great resources, but without a basic understanding of the mechanics you won't know which to use or how to apply those that are relevant. But I would very much agree that once you have knowledge of the fundamentals, practice and play as much as you possibly can ! TF

This book : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Short-Hitting-Golfers-Break-ebook/dp/B004QS99AO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid;=1358709427&sr;=8-1 ? TF

Great news Bullitt :-) And that's a very interesting point about learning more effectively on the course, I must say. TF

My advice WFIF is to be very careful about the feedback you receive * from posting video and especially stills.With all due respect to everyone who subsequently posts their very well-intentioned advice, it seems to me that it would be very easy to get confused and I personally would worry that a particular swing fault had been correctly assessed - some things aren't as obvious as you might think. I suspect that this is less of a problem with full video that can be run in slow-motion and I have no doubt that there are a lot of forum contributors that very much know what they're talking about, but my starting point would be comparison with stills and video given to me by my pro. On the subject of video and finding pros that work for you, there's the Evolvr training route. I haven't tried it, but you'll obviously find testemonials on this site. Had you thought about using them at all ? TF. * I obviously don't mean IACAS, MVMAC etc. I'm pretty sure they know what they're talking about ... ;-)

Not sure about Bullitt, but I live just outside London so I can indeed play & practice pretty much all year 'round, although practice is only off grass during the summer months and I'm convinced that I actually don't play enough rounds throughout the year due to other commitments, but I agree that a proper break is definitely worth considering ... TF

what Shooter said +1, but i still totally sympathise. I too go and practice hard, but sometimes return with the fault still all too evident. I've recently realised that my practice isn't effective without visual feedback so I asked Santa for a camera so that I don't just rely on feel. Are you working with a mirror and a camera ? I've also come to realise that I have to be very careful about the drills and advice I'm given, especially exaggeration drills. One example that screwed me up was the concept of keeping the club face square to the arc - I ended up overdoing it and trying to keep it square for too long into the back swing. Ultimately, I'm at the same point you are - an increasing handicap despite coaching and working hard. I don't have the answer, sadly, but I have resolved to get more regular coaching, to play more (because I'm a different player at the range), to try and avoid over-analysis, and to increase my fitness. I can't quit yet, but I do find myself wondering if I'll ever break 100 again let alone improve on my former best 'cap of 17. I've been playing far too long and had far too many lessons to be as bad at golf as I am. At this stage I can only emphasise visual feedback and not just during the lesson. Does that seem sensible ?

I totally and utterly sympathise with your situation. I similarly do not enjoy being on the course and haven't for some time now. If you're addicted like most of us, then quitting isn't an option. You've got an analysis on which to base your recovery and I would have thought that prior to changing clubs, finding a pro with whom you can connect would be the best move. It will potentially save you from going 'round in circles trying to resolve your issues on your own and you may find that the solutions aren't as drastic as tearing your swing totally apart. A pro's advice and some video work along the way are a great combination.Finding a pro with an approach you like could take some effort, of course, and it's a very personal thing. I can only say that what's stoping me from quitting is coaching with a pro who's worked with Plummer & Bennett so his approach is along the S&T; lines. When I do what I'm told, the results are great. TF.

I've struggled with the issue of an arms-dominant swing up until very recently, but finally came to understand the real importance of keeping the arms and body more connected, at which point my swing became more of a swing than a "hit" - much less effort to get some really decent club-head speed. I didn't work on my hip action even though, like you, it felt wrong (as did my leg action, impact position and follow-through), but rather I worked on the connection. For me, staying properly connected promotes the correct sequence of body actions - hips, legs etc all seem to naturally work how you think they should in a proper golf swing. Also, it eliminated my chicken-wing at impact. The main "fix" for me on this aspect was paying particular attention to the following, specially the last item. I appreciate this may not apply to you, but I found it so significant that I thought I'd lay it out and it might prove useful to you. So, aside from the normal main keys I focus on : staying "connected", esp. at the start of the backswing (i.e. arms close to torso), plus ensure a correct plane (not too flat) calm the back-swing down (I somehow subconsciously swung too fast to compensate for the lack of power in the down-swing) make a full shoulder turn, but don't overswing or collapse the left arm a little pause at the top comes naturally if you maintain the connection and start the downswing which now won't start with the arms, but ... ... keep the right elbow in toward your right hip (and don't get too flat here either) There are plenty of people on here far more capable of describing this idea and if you feel it's missing in your swing then keep plugging away with questions until you get it because, at least to me, this one aspect of the swing has been hugely significant. Joehuggy (a single-figure handicapper) recently posted on this too : http://thesandtrap.com/t/63148/from-250yard-carry-to-a-275-yard-carry-with-one-change EDIT : just saw that you posted there so obviously read it already BTW, in my 4th bullet point I avoided saying what does actually start my down-swing because I'm not entirely sure if it's hips, torso, legs, some combination of those or something else, but i know it's no longer my arms. TF

Aha ! I make the exact same (re-)discovery this weekend I've been trying to work out why my swing's been so variable of late (esp. with longer clubs as you also observe) and it transpires that it's been down to a lack of connectivity and synch between arms and torso, fixed in my case by the "right elbow" swing thought you describe. For me it also helps to eliminates my left arm chicken-wing because there's room for my left arm to be properly straight at impact, adding club-head speed and hence a more effective strike. "Right elbow in " has now been added to my list of 70+ swing thoughts TF

Had a brief bout of the s****s at the range the other day and worked out that it was due to a sligthly flat downswing - backswing was on plane, but not the downswing hence the hosel hitting the ball . Concentrated on the shoulder plane on the way down and it was all good. TF

A teaching pro friend of mine once opined that the best handicap was around 12 - 15 because you could occasionally have those exciting rounds where you shoots the lights out, but this is interspersed with average and some bad rounds, whereas the consistency that comes with being a low 'capper means your scores are usually very similar from round to round. I replied that I'd got for being a "boring" low 'capper thank you very much. Strange that we strive to improve our swings, our scores and our handicaps and yet we can categorise a good or excellent round as "boring" ! Maybe it's just that I've nevber had one TF

I usually hit too many I know I should stick to the medium basket of about 60 balls, but I can rarely resist the big 'un at 120 and inevitably get tired and lose the swing a bit. I do practice sensibly for the most part - along the lines mentioned by GolfBear and lumpuckeroo, but something about that range servant just makes me hit the wrong vend option. Time to turn over a new leaf ... TF

Quote: Originally Posted by golf55 It takes me 4-5hrs to play 18holes cause people are freaking slow. If I had the course all to myself I can finish it in 90minutes. How do you guys deal with long wait period? I'm sure more expensive course($100) have fewer people but I can't afford that . Wow OP - 90 minutes. Y ou play as fast as you want to, obviously, but you must absolutely fly 'round I reckon that's an average of just under 55 seconds per shot assuming you play solo, shoot 83 on a par 72 6500 yard course riding a buggy with a very heavy foot. No wonder you get frustrated on the course if you're not being asked to play through where it's feasible. Clearly not everyone likes to play at the same pace which is why the generally accepted ettiquette works reasonably well : keep up with the group in front and if you don't then let the group behind you play through if there's room and they're consistently waiting for you to play. The many other ways to keep the pace up are just comon sense (e.g. play "ready golf" if it's a casual round; take several clubs with you if you're leaving your bag in a buggy and the ball's 20+ yards away, etc). Unfortunately, too few players have sufficient consideration for others on the course. Personally, I don't like rushing, I don't like feeling pressued into playing faster that my natural pace and I wouldn't want to do that to others on the course - I don't know anyone who play well when tense. 4 hours is about right for me (no buggy and carrying my bag). I'm happy to let someone play through if I'm holding them up, and I expect them to do the same, but of course the Laws Of Golf then apply and many people when asked to play through make a complete hash of it and embarrassedly rush to get ahead of your group TF

Many thanks, Mike & SK TidyFreak

Thanks sk, but what language is the guy in the first video speaking ? TidyFreak

Well, maybe the instructors have a goal in mind and their instruction is a means to an end, but I've not heard of a pro promoting such an action before. Still, I'm no teaching pro so I don't feel I can second guess them, but at the least it's intriguing and I'd like to know the logic behind it. Someone here will have the answer, I'm sure. TF

Why would you be trying to close the cub-face ? Is it open during the back-swing ? I would imagine that the guys on here who are best qualified to analyse your problem and help out will want to see a video. TF

- Partners in pairs competitions that make it very clear they're getting stressed out because you're playing badly, thus making your game even worse - try some encouragement and calming words instead; - Group members who constantly dissect every one of their shots, interrupting your concentration. I'm interested, occasionally, but I need to focus; - Players who, however well-meaning, insist on giving you unsolicited advice about your swing mechanics. I know you mean well, but I have a pro that does that for me. TidyFreak

Sames as swalker's OP ("short" backswing thought), PLUS keeping connected with my left arm on the downswing. TidyFreak.

We probably all pretty much accept that the range is not going to be totally peaceful, but I think it's reasonable to expect courtesy and consideration from our fellow golfers. Talk is inevitable, but it doesn't have to be loud. Also, in my experience ranges vary widely : my club range is very quiet even when busy and / or the instructors are present, whereas my local double-story public range can be a bit of a zoo, esepcially at weekends when dad's been told to take the little 'uns out of the house and it's so buys that you have a lot of people hovering, watching and waiting for a bay to come free. I try to be patient and not let things distract me and if I'm compltely honest with myself I usually only find other people irritating when I can't put a good swing on the ball - i.e. I'm actually annoyed with myself, not them ! Haivng said that, I would reiterate my point that people should still feel obliged to be courteous and keep the noise down. TidyFreak

My pro got me doing the 3/4 swing thing as per the other guys' suggestions, but I couldn't get it until we used a camera because what I thought was a short swing was nothing like it. I just couldn't tie up what I thought I was doing with the reality. So, if you can't progress with the tips above add in a camera and watch yourself - the feedback will hopefully get you to home in on the swing length you want. TidyFreak

On Sunday I played with a guy whose rushing was a revelation in that I thought "that's me sometimes !" and it made me re-evaluate my pace. In particular, this guy rushed his short game, often screwed-up the shot and then rushed to the next one with the same poor results, all the time mumbling to himself about his poor game. You can see how that's just a self-perpetuating mode. He also rushed his long game with similar consequences and on several occasions got angry at himself. Having said that, everyone's pace is slightly different I guess. I know what you mean about rushing due to being self-conscious, but I've discovered that your game won't improve by rushing and if you're playing badly due to enforced fast play then you're still holding people up anyway. Play at the pace that gives you time to focus but don't get bogged down with swing thoughts. If you're holding people up then let them play through and then you can relax. To find a pace that suits you, try and play 6 or 9 holes on your own with no one else around (e.g. late on a Summer's evening). I do this and even find myself talking out loud to ... er ... me, which might seem odd, but can help with the focus and keep you relaxed. TidyFreak