johnclayton1982

I am ignorant of how to proceed here, so I wanted to ask the boards. A golf shop local to me spent a few afternoons ago fitting me for a new driver. The guy was really good. I had been playing a 2006 Nike Lucky 13 SQ cut down 1" when learning I got on ebay cheap, but my last two rounds were 86 and 89 and I really suffered from distance off the tee. Now that I can generally hit it straight consistently, I wanted a driver fit to me with a little length. The guy who helped me was great. I hit many, many drivers with a machine monitoring my swing, and, on the recommendation of the person there and my own feel, settled on the cleveland xl 290 with standard length. I went to the range to hit the new club and busted out 5 or 6 balls, which added a good 40 yards, and I was pumped, until I noticed the club said "draw" on it - it was a draw driver. Some details: I didn't notice in the store, because the guy took all the stickers off and put a headcover on before I left, so I never actually saw the driver I bought except when he carried it from the floor to the back, i hit the demo model and it was not a draw. How to proceed? Do you think they will switch it out with a regular 290 for me? Should I just keep the draw driver? (is it that big a difference?) If they refuse to switch it, what should I do then? Call Cleveland? I have not taken it out on the course, but I did hit 6 or so range balls before discovering the mistake.

I am a mid-90s player trying to get better. I found that the particular ball really doesn't matter at all. I shot my lowest round with pro v1s (86), then the very next weekend, I shot a 120 with pro v1s. For us, from outside the green, it really doesn't matter. However, what does matter is putting. Different balls behave totally differently when putting, and when beginners jump around it makes it very difficult to get better at putting (you never know how hard to swing the putter to lag putt, because you are constantly changing balls that have totally different pace). When I finally settled on Nike PD Long balls as my ball, my off-the-green game was relatively unaffected (if I hit a good shot, it was good. If not, it wasn't), but my putting has really gotten alot better because I have a much better "memory" built up as to how hard to hit for certain distance putts because the ball is always the same. It takes a variable out of putting. Thats important. So, find a ball that is relatively cheap, that maybe your local store constantly has on sale or something, but always play that. Jumping around kills your putting.

I would suggest using several greens or lowering your putts per session. By the end of the 250, you are going to know that hole so well you won't miss. However, it will be a false positive for how good you are.

Quote: Moral: Having solid fundamentals will allow you to trust your swing. You can't trust fundamentals that will continue to deliver bad results. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. So, if you are good, you should trust your swing, but if you are bad you can't "trust it", so you should change to something good? I used to play with a messed up grip and an insanely open stance, because I played serious college tennis. I did it for about 9 months. I actually broke 100 with a very strange, almost tennis grip, that scooped the ball with the irons and hit the driver like a topspin forehand. I am athletic, and I thought it was "good". Thank god I went to a pro and didn't just "work on it", because I could have practiced that for months and months and months and gotten nowhere. Five lessons with a pro, about another 9 months, and a ton of practice, and I can shoot in the 90s again. However, this time, I feel like I can progress beyond this. If you stink but your swing feels natural, don't "work on it naturally". Go see a pro.

Quote: Great post by johnclayton1982. Very helpful. Can you elaborate more on Number 2? Is this the same as a Smash Bag? Thanks. It is the same. Its a bag that you hit, hard, and it freezes you at impact position. You can see if you are square, open, or closed, or what you look like. I went out to my yard and teed up a ball, then traced my tee height onto a blank side of the bag with a felt pen. Then, I'd hit that with my driver 40 times per night, making sure it was (1) square and (2) hitting the right height (i.e. not topping or clipping mostly the tee). During this practice, I also used a swing meter to make sure I wasn't slowing down to square up, focusing on hitting square, not high or low, and at least a 90 mph swing speed. Now I can hit the bag well at 95, and don't lose too much at 100. My goal in one year is to be able to get good impact position over 100. These drills have also given me a good sense of how fast my club is going - I swing all out on par 5s with wide-open fairways, and much slower on tight, short par 4s. This would have been impossible without constantly swinging, then checking speed and impact position. Between the smash bag practice and switching to a short driver (cut down a full 1" from regular size) with 12* of loft, I have drastically increased my fairways hit. I hit 11/14 straight the other day at my club, 10/14 hit fairways (two rolled too far into rough, but the shot was straight.) This has caused my score to plummet from 105,108+ to the high eighties. I don't hit it very far, probably due to the cut down driver (about 225-245) but being in the fairway that much makes it much easier to shoot a low score. If you can control the drive, and you can make solid iron contact most of the time, you are generally looking at a bogey at worst on the typical par 4 if you hit it 230 in the fairway (iron shot, chip, two putts). Making the driver easier and drilling being able to hit it straight cuts scores really fast, and sometimes you hit a good iron or a good putt and grab a par. I'm a bit less sure how to make the jump from high eighties to low eighties, but for the moment I'm going to enjoy being able to play in the mornings without holding up 10 groups.

I recently dropped a ton of strokes off the game in a relatively short period, but what you are trying here is (1) silly and (2) unrealistic. I love the idea of charting progress, but playing 18 holes every day is not a good way to improve. You will become incredibly course-biased (unless these rounds are spread out among different courses), picking up bad habits in your swing to fit it to particular holes. In Febuary, I was shooting about a 125. I just played a round with 100% legitimate scoring at TPC Louisiana. I shot a 96. It was my first round at the course, and from the men's tees. Additionally, that included a 9 on a par 5 on the front where I became trapped in a fairway bunker for several shots (a shot I have yet to learn). I did not lose a single ball. Without that score, it could have been significantly lower. That is much better than 125 at your home course (about 30 strokes). As detailed in other posts, I broke a legit 90 at the home course about a week ago (just barely, but still) I made a committment to getting better, but what did I actually do, and what actually worked? 1. Took 5 lessons from a PGA Pro - ~$750 This was by far the most valuable and best return on investment. In the first lesson, the pro changed everything, including my grip, stance, posture, routine, etc... and taught me the basics. After that, he helped with putting and ballstriking. We did a lesson on the driver. We did a lesson on hitting hybrids hard from the fairway on long par 4s / par 5s to get close for the 3rd. We did a lesson on how to hit a pitch and where to aim (when to hit at flag, when to go middle of green, etc...) It was invaluable. 2. Bought a striking bag This was pretty important. i practice driving in my living room and checking to see if I hit hard and what my impact position is. It is very effective and training you to hit square with your driver. My driver goes pretty straight now. 3. Started using the same ball all the time This really helped my putting. Different balls don't matter out on the course now, but on the green they do. Sticking with one putter and one ball has made it much easier to improve. 4. Bought new clubs (set of irons and driver) Made no difference at all. For a lark the other day, I went back and hit the old cobras I had replaced. Hit them almost exactly the same as the new ones. Same with the driver. 5. Started going to the range 4 days a week and developing a 'go to" shot / club This was the big one. The range is where you get better / get good. Period. Pick a shot and a club you like, and make it your go-to shot. For me, its my Nike SQ 4 hybrid. I hit it about 200 even, and its very consistent, especially off the tee. I hit 200 per week off the tee and out of various lies. Since I have a short driver (my best ever is 260, and average is around 225), and I can't yet hit a fairway wood off the grass, I hit my 4 hybrid more in a round than my putter. Get a "go to" scoring shot so you can think "ok, if I can just get it to ____ position, I can get really close". 6. Tracked my rounds really close (you are doing this) Made me realize my long irons were terrible and to get to the range to practice them. Not only will you frustrate other golfers at your club by being out there every day playing a 130 (that can't be a fast round), you will lose a fortune in greens fees and lost balls. Go see a pro and make a commitment to the range. Play maybe 2-3 times a week and hit the range 3 times a week, with a rest day. That worked for me.

I'm going to suggest something else that worked for me. I dropped from a 110 to an 86 pretty fast using this. Not for everyone, but it worked for me. I bought the "Golfer's Logbook" (~$20 from amazon). Its a hardcover book that has a very elegant charting method to show where you are dropping strokes. My experience has been that people have no idea where they are dropping strokes, but it is almost always in the same place. If you don't chart what has gone wrong, you can't fix it. When on the course, I use my own scorecard. Where the four-six names would usually go, I write: JB (my initials for my total score) F TG Dwn100 P This stands for F - Fairway Hit (F is fairway, R is miss right, L is miss left, OB, or W), TG - To Green (number of strokes to get on the green for that hole), Dwn100 - How many strokes to get down when you get within 100 yards, P - Number of putts. When you get home, copy it over into your golfers logbook. Its amazing how quickly your flaws jump out. When I did it, I realized my Dwn100 and P were really strong (Good short game), and my Fairways weren't horrible, but my TG score was really bad. After a lesson on irons and approach shots, and some time on a range that has fake greens to hit at, my score plumetted. If, for example, you see a string of OB, Ws and Ls on your F section, go to 3 wood for a round instad of driver and see how you do. You need to find out where you are dropping shots. And don't say "its everywhere!" It isn't. If it were, you'd be at 120, not low-90s. Its a specific part of your game. Figure out what that part is. You can't get better until you know whats wrong. Play 4-5 18 hole rounds doing this and I think you'll see a pattern jump out.

I have the X-20s and play them 5-GW (3 and 4 are SQ hybrids). I recently upgraded from some super-game improvement irons, as detailed in another of these threads. I love the X-20s. They are super workable, and still relatively easy to hit. I also think they have a really nice look at address and in the bag. A few thoughts: 1. It doesn't matter what shaft you get at this point, except I would not get the Rifle shafts. I tried these out before I bought the clubs. They are the only shaft type where I could notice the difference, and they felt strange. They felt extremely stiff and I felt like I had to swing really hard to get through the ball, which made me significantly pull them left. I tried three other shafts, two of which were dynamic gold and one which was callaway, and noticed no difference at all between the three. I got graphite, regular flex, regular length, and they work really well. I can only afford lessons once every six weeks or so, but my instructor said after about 4 months I may want to have the clubs bent a bit to customize them, but not now. 2. You are going to want to buy the GW and drop the 4 iron. The PW is only 45*, which is kinda standard these days, but will probably carry you 110-120. As a beginner, hitting a bladed wedge (they have alot less forgiveness) straight and with flight (i.e. not a line drive) 100 yards is not easy, and you need to be accurate w/n 100 yards to avoid 100+ scores. You will probably, on alot of holes, hit a drive into the rough, then come back with a 5,6 or hybrid to near the green, but not on it. After a few lessons / practice to make sure you get good contact, your skill 110 and in will decide if you are around 90-94 or 105-110. The 4 iron is really hard to hit, and, I would be willing to be a significant amount of $$, as a beginner, you will actually hit the 5 iron farther than the 4 iron for a while (decreasing loft only allows beginners to hit it far until a point - then it starts to hurt distance as the ball doesn't get off the ground). 3. The nike sq sumo hybrids are cheap used ($30-40 with shipping on ebay) and the lofts of the sq hybrids fit exactly with the lofts of the X-20s. I am a big fan of my setup for a beginner: SQ hybrids (or any 20,24 and 21, 24 3, 4 hybrids), X-20s 5-GW, and a wedge you like 54 or 56 and 58 or 60. Its a nice setup that will give you a chance on most holes. 4. Don't get discouraged. I needed about 2 weeks of range time with the X-20s before I could hit them as well as the SGI cobras I had (shovel-like). They look better, go further, and give you more control, but they are harder to hit than the "shovel clubs". -John

Quote: OFF topic: As for the $$ part, well..I don't feel too awful sorry for $$ causing pressure, cuz basically, they ALL make more than the common working man,with not nearly as much effort. yes, practicing for 8 hours isn't my idea of a fun day, but it's better than being in a coal mine.... or a poultry processing plant... or Crab fisherman..or a ditch digger. For the time invested, they get MUCH better returns monetarily. Case in point: DJ Trahan has earned over 10 Mil in winnings on tour( Yahoo sports webpage) over the years ...thats' alot more $$ than most farmer/timberman/fisherman/Auto worker/Doctor/Lawyer/WasteManagement worker/nurse/railroader/younameit earn with YEARS of training/experience....only pro sports pays that well( generalism). and sooner or later, that too will decline, as peoples' disposable incomes continue to shrink. it's happening already... look at NFL /Nascar/MLB/MLS.. all have seen significant declines in attendances and sponsors, ... that will spread to other Pro sports as well, unless the economy does an about face. aren't there PGA events that are being threatened by lack of sponsorship?? did I hear that correctly from a TV announcer,last week I believe ??? wouldn't/shouldn't surprise anyone if it's true.... The part you don't get or account for is the risk. For every Fowler or DJ Trahan, there are 300+ guys who make $21k a year for ten years and end up with no career, when they could have done something else. The reason those guys are paid so highly is the fact that not many who try to do that succeed. On the other hand, someone who works in a coal mine or a poultry processing plant or a crab fisherman has a much better chance to "make it" and get one of those jobs. And you say "only pro sports pays that well...", but if you average over all who try to do pro sports they pay horribly. Pro sports pay well if you are one of the best in the world. But guess what? golf actually makes you very little compared to the best lawyer, or best doctor, or best almost anything, including craftsmen. You can't just look at the top 300 golfers and compare it to the average of ALL in another profession. Either compare top 300 to top 300 (in which case, I bet golf, as an occupation, is quite low on the list at ~$8m) or compare entire profession to entire profession. You can't compare elite golfers to average lawyers or factory workers.

A few thoughts from someone who just recently broke 90, and usually is around 94-95. 1. You can score remarkably high by making good contact and having a good short game (i.e. you don't three putt, and you don't chip or pitch more than once to get on the green). The short game is not to be neglected. In fact, to get under 90, nearly every single "found" shot I had came in the short game (6 one-putts, 12 two-putts as oppossed to the usual 3 three-puts, 14 two-putts and 1 one-putt). It is very difficult to improve your score through your irons as a beginner, but it is relatively quick to improve your score via your touch, chipping, pitching and putting. Don't neglect it during practice. In fact, we have a guy at our club who can't hit hard at all and never hits driver, but routinely breaks 80. 4 wood or low iron off the tee and a very good short game. 2. Take 2-3 lessons. This did absolute wonders for me. The swing gets much simpler. Get the right grip from a pro. Get a short backswing. Make clean contact and follow through. With a decent short game, you will be amazed how theses three things (grip, simple and repeatable backswing, clean contact) can make you score decently. The longer you go without a lesson, the tougher it will be to do it right when you finally decide to take lessons. 3. Put the driver away. Hit 4 or 5 wood off the tee, then move to 3 wood. Hit driver at the range, and add it for Par 5s at first. I played a course this weekend that was very long, and hit 5 wood off the tee. On a long par 5, a 5 wood off the tee, then a 3 hybrid and 6 iron with clean contact, correct grip, and short backswing, i was *over* the green. As a beginner, you don't need a 300 yard shot off the tee, you need to be in the fairway. 4. This is a very hard game and it is very, very easy to get frustrated (the ball is just sitting there!! ARARAAGAHA!!!!). Find a way to make it fun. Check out my thread on skins for new players, that makes it really fun for me and my group. Good luck!

Quote: I like the idea of giving players the incentive to strive for a better game. Yeah, we evolved these rules over about a year and a half of once a week skins game on Saturday afternoons. The first rule was the double bogey rule after we realized that we were playing really defensive golf waiting for others to make mistakes. We will probably add something new soon. When we first started, people would be pumped to get a few skins by the end, and now usually the winner has six or seven. Our first scores were in the 130s, and now we routinely shoot low-100s, and a 90 round isn't something to celebrate anymore. A few times members of our group have broken 90, but that is rare. Quote: Sounds like you guys are having fun, but I have to ask - even at your groups skill level - has anyone ever lost a skin for putting more than 3 times? Yes. That rule was added for one specific hole on the course we always play on, the 2nd, which is a par 3. The green is a half-moon shape with the crescent points to either side of the tee box (like a half circle facing inward to you). On the left and right wings are very steep inclines, and the flag sits at the middle (usually) on a little plateau. It is very easy to hit it too hard and roll up to the plateau and then down the other side (again and again). Sometimes, the fear of that happening makes you pull off and not get it up the incline you are on! Its a devilish green and very easy for people at our level to four putt. Even if you are on the plateau, you can very easily overcook it and end up down the bottom of one of the sides again. Once, a guy got a skin for hitting his tee shot on the green and then putting four times, which we didn't like. Its a really tricky hole. Really, we were looking for a way to make it fun and interesting / exciting over 18 holes. We found your concentration starts to go because who cares about the difference between a 103 and a 104 at the end of the day? However, these rules make you concentrate. We've had some exciting finishes - this past saturday, two guys were tied on 18. The 18 at our club is a long par 5 which is pretty open but has water up the right and a relatively square green is protected by four bunkers at each corner. Two guys tied with five skins each, and two guys not in the running. The first of the two not in the running missed the fairway with a 5 wood, and so couldn't score a skin (he was on a missed-4 streak). The second guy (me) not in the running ended up in a bunker for shot 4. Both the guys in the running missed the green in regulation with third shots, and had short pitch shots from behind the green for their fours. They both pitched on. Now, if I can sand save, neither can win (thats up out of the bunker and down in one putt) because if anyone makes a sand save nobody can win a skin without a par. If either one of those guys can two putt, that guy will take the skin and the round. I can bet you $100 that if I had just shot a 102 (which is what I had), I wouldn't have looked at that bunker shot very long - just thought "get it out", let my mind wander. But I looked at that thing for a few minutes to decide where to put it on the green, etc... to try to ruin their skin, and really thought about where to hit the bunker shot, and where on the green I wanted to put the ball, how it roll out of the bunker when it would land, etc... I missed the putt,and one of the guys won, but that was pretty exciting for a finish of a round where all four players shot 100+. We play on Saturday afternoons around 2 pm, so we are usually the only ones out there. Once, we tied skins, so we did a playoff on the 18th hole (nobody else was out there). I've never seen anyone with a 100+ score nervous on a tee box. :) Anyone have any variants like this they like to play?

Hi, Me and my play group put together a custom variant for skins that has evolved over the years. We really like it, and it makes play very fun for high-handicappers. Yes, these are not "real" rules, but we like them alot. We also found that it helps our play in other areas, and helps teach us about the game and critical skills that are required for the game. -- Special rules: You can only score a skin if you get double-bogey or better. No more winning holes 11 to 9. If both are worse than double-bogey, you split the hole, no matter who is ahead. You can only triple-putt to win a skin if you hit the green in regulation. Otherwise, you can't triple putt and win a skin. No chipping / pitching then triple-putting. You cannot win a skin on any hole if you four putt. You must hit one out of every four fairways off the tee (exempting par 3s). If you do not hit the fairway for four straight tee shots, you cannot win a skin until you hit the fairway off the tee. You do not have to use driver to do this, obviously, and people have gone to 8 and 9 irons to make sure they hit. This is good, as it stops the beginner from doing the usual 8 straight tee shots into the woods thing. Slow down and hit the fairway. If you make a sand save for double or better, you cannot lose a skin unless your opponent parred the hole. -- The real purpose behind this is that once beginners get into the high 90s low 100s their focus starts to go and they start just bombing off the tee and not taking their time on putts. The three-put rule really helps make some of the putts really pressure-packed at the end, which you do not get a chance to have when you shoot 104. The four in a row fairway rule makes some tee shots very pressure-packed, which, again, you do not have if you are at 109 and your last 10 tee shots have found the woods. These rules have led to some incredibly exciting finishes where in stroke we would have shot 110 or 108 each. Also, we get the feeling of holing a huge putt to avoid triple-putting and grabbing a critical skin. These rules have made me a much better golfer, as I take much longer on putts and off the tee, and in bunkers, then when i would just go out and shoot 100. I recently shot my best round, an 86, so I might ditch these rules, but they have helped me and my playing partners, are great fun, and help your game by adding some pressure where there usually isn't any. I'd be interested to hear if you guys have any other variants that make the game more exciting. Sorry in advance to purists who find these rules horrible. :) Best, John

It was very embarassing. I had chopped around the range a few times and had bought a tight lies set because a bunch of my collagues and friends play and I wanted to start playing with them (this was about a year ago). I had taken two lessons. I let my friend, who was about a 90 golfer, convince me to try to play with him on a Saturday at about noon at a local club. I teed off the first hole, which is a par 5 with a wide open fairway that starts about 70 yards in front of the first tee box. On my first drive, I got nothing but tee (I saw on TV you tee it high) and the ball went about 90 feet straight up and about 30 yards out. I picked up a five wood (because thats what you play for the second shot on a par 5, right?) and proceded to try to hack it out of the rough. After grounding the club three times in a row and going about 10 feet, I tried a five iron (the lowest iron i had) and managed to hack out a 80 yard horrific slide about 5 feet off the ground into the fairway. The groups waiting to tee off behind us gave a loud ovation. It was embarassing. A year later, I am totally hooked, and my favorite thing to do is to go play golf late Saturday afternoon with that same group, where I can now somewhat play with them. We get out every saturday about 1. But man those first months were tough!

Hi All, I hesitated to post this, because most of the "what iron set should i buy" threads turn into people telling you to buy what feels good, which is fine. However, I have a bit more complicated situation and I'm really not sure what to do due to ignorance of price points. When I started playing about a year ago, my dad gave me his old iron set, a 2007 s9 cobra 4-GW. Over the past year, I've added a used driver for approx. $30, two hybrids for a little more used, and some nice new wedges from cleveland i love. I also have a hand me down putter I like. My best round is an 86, and my usual round is about 93-94. About a week ago, I lost my 8 iron. I have no idea where; tried courses and range, nobody turned it in. Not sure where it is at all. I priced out some options, and it turns out replacing the 8 iron with an identical setup is quite expensive, costing almost 1/3rd or so what a new whole set would cost. I like the irons, but I don't have much experience with anything else. My options: 1. Buy a new 8 iron with the same shaft and grip (golf price wound and Y5.1 graphite regular shaft). This would cost $89.99 from ironfinder.com. Even assembling the parts myself, it would be no less than $80 or so, plus installation. An email to ironfinder askin them to come down in price they said the 2007 s9s were popular, and the y5.1 graphite is an in-demand model and to replace would be about $90. I would then be spending $90 to have a full set of 4 year old used irons. 2. Buy a new 8 iron with a steel shaft. This would be my only club with a steel shaft... does this really matter? It is about $59.99 for a 2007 s9 8 iron steel shaft. 3. Buy a 2008 s9 8 iron with graphite shaft. For some reason, these are much less expensive on ebay than a 2007, about $34.99. The club looks different, but would it play similar? Not sure. 4. Look at buying a used iron set. What could I get for about $170-200? I feel really wierd dropping $90 on a new iron to end up with a used set that isn't fitted for me or that I didn't shop for. Any suggestions on where you would go? If I do have to look for a new iron set, where should I look? How should I go about buying something 170-200 that feels like the s9s? Thanks, John

I was playing a quick round last night at my local course after work with two friends. On the par 5 5th hole, my third shot ended up on the green from a seven iron. My playing partner, who got into some trouble in the woods on his drive, came in onto the green with a long hybrid as his third shot. His ball actually hit my ball, causing it to fly off at a 45 degree angle, hit a downslope on the green, and roll into a greenside bunker. His ball went the other way a ways, and ended up on the fringe. What do you do in this situation? I hit the ball from the trap and made bogey (shot out of trap plus two putts). I also put a provisional down where my ball was and putted out for par (just two puts from my original ball location b/fore playing parters ball knocked it into a sand trap). The reason I decided to post and ask is (1) curiosity, but more importantly, I shot my lowest round ever, and the first time breaking 90 (everything was working for me somehow). I shot an 86 with the provisional two-putt par, and an 87 with the ball being knocked into bunker then playing it out. Since it might be a while before I beat that score again - which do I take as my "lowest round" under the rules, the 86 or the 87? Note: I want to play it straight, so that I can always compare my scores later. Thanks all, and thanks to all who helped me with my long irons in the other thread. This is a good site.

Thank you for the response. A few clarifications. On the range, I can hit them past 120-125, but they never go straight. I meant I can only hit the 5 iron straight 120-25. And they are bad shanks too. I do usually gather the 6i at the range at 175, but its about 50/50 shank / non-shank. As to the 4 Hybrid shot, i didnt measure it. I could easily have been 195 or 200. I was really excited about the shot when wrote the post, and it sure FELT like 210. You might be right about the slowing down. I was so frustrated I wasn't even thinking about any swing cues or tips or anything and just blasted it. I'm trying to get that swing again but haven't yet.

Thank you for the tips. I played 9 today, and concentrated very hard on simply swinging freely and trying to "skim" the grass and hear that "whoosh" sound on my practice swings from it skimming the grass. It was going very, very poorly, with a shanked 4 iron responsible for a triple bogey on one and a shanked five iron a double on seven. Other holes were pars and one bogey (do not require long irons on my course). On the 9th, I actually did it right and it felt freaking *great*. Smacked the heck out of a four hybrid and hit it about 210 straight to within 45 yards of the green (triple putted for bogey, but that is another story...). It felt awesome. No divot at all left on the grass. I guess that is golf. You are about to quit, and just when you've given up hope, you stop trying, and bang, you hit a great shot and all you want to do is play some more. Went to the range after and couldn't recaputre it; hit about 40 so-so balls before having to leave. Thank you for the tips. I guess it is a practice thing and I need to keep at it. Man, that one felt great though.

This is my first post with advice, and I'm not good at golf. Nevertheless, I had this problem. I solved it by concentrating on making the first thing that moves on my takeback swing my left shoulder. Not left wrist, arm, everything, but shoulder muscle only. Feel it start in your shoulder. It keeps everything else quiet and the putter head still - your shoulder muscle can take the club back, but it cant make it move. This tip really worked well for me. EDIT: not so much shoulder as the muscle way up the underside of your arm. Almost at your shoulder, and it almost feels when in the putting stance like it is inside your shoulder. I think it is the tricep. It can make the head go back, but it cannot physically influence the putter. Just make it start your takeback and it really helps.

Just got done another round, still having serious issues. I shot a 91, which I am pumped about. However, five double bogeys killed the round, and all five were the result of a shanked 4 or 5 iron. Ugh. One, exactly one, time I hit a nice five iron onto the green and two putted out for par. All the others were disasters. Went to the range after the round for an hour and still couldn't bang anything out beyond 120 or so with the low irons. Anybody have any lessons or dvds they like to learn this shot? Frustrated! If I could hit a semi-consitent long iron I might be able to hit 88 or 87.

Thank you for your reply. I had thought the swing was supposed to be the same, just letting the loft do the work. I tried a flatter swing plane at the range and saw some definate improvement in terms of not slicing or pulling as much - but i still can't get it to go very far at all. The furthest I hit my 4 iron hybrid was about 125, shorter than my seven iron. I was really swinging hard, but I had a hard time getting the ball airborne with anything below a 6. I was practicing using cobra baffler rail hybrid 5 and 4 (26* and 22*), and a cobra fist 5 wood. Most were low, line drives about 6-7 feet off the ground with tons of pace but no distance. Are there any instructional videos you like, or dvds or drills to practice hitting the ball long from the fairway? I have a round tomorrow on a long course and I am worried aobut these shots. I may just hit 7 iron on all these shots and take the 150 or so straight as oppossed to chancing it with a FW or hybrid. I would feel pretty good about my game (not great, but pretty good) if I could develop something from the fairway that could go 180 or so yards straight... I'm not very concerned with accuracy at this point - just trying to figure out how to get some loft / distance with the low clubs w/o a tee. Thanks, John

Hi All, This is my first post. In fact, I joined to ask this question. I have been playing for about 1 year. I love the game. I play two rounds a week, one thursday afternoon one saturday afternoon, look forward to them all week. I play match play saturday and stroke thursday with the same people about the same skill level as me (i.e. they can't help me). However, it is an absolute blast. I usually get out to the range two or three other days. The past two rounds, I shot the lowest two scores I have ever shot (93 and 95). In a review of the rounds, however, I noticed that I was driving my score much higher by not being able to hit - at all - long shots from the fairway. In fact, of the par 3s of the two rounds, I parred all but one, and did very well on the short par 4s and one short par 5 (which, at my club, because of water, you don't have to a single particular shot far). Virtually all my strokes came from second shots on long holes. They would almost uniformly be horrid - mishits, topped balls, into the woods - one par 5 triple bogey came from a 4 hybrid off the fairway pulled almost 45 degrees into the woods, followed by two shots trying to get out. Over the two rounds, I only triple-putted twice. I need to fix how to hit the ball from the fairway more than 155 yards or so (the max i can hit my 7 iron, which is the lowest lofted club I am relatively consistent with). The 6 iron is about 170-175 and is about 50/50. Below the 6 iron, 5i, 4 hybrid, 3 hybrid and fairway woods, its worse than 20%. its terrible! I don't have all that much money, but I am considering splurging on a lesson just to ask this question. The problem is that I had to save up cash for a long time to join my club (best purchase ever made!) and I could only afford to do one or two lessons once in a while - my club doesn't have a pro and i wouldn't know who to call for a lesson. I know technique is king, but I improved my driving game and putting by replacing with new equipment, and I would love to replace my woods or hybrids if you have some game-improvement suggestions. My bag: Driver: Calloway 2004 X 11* (