ay33660

You live in the NJ area which is a more densely populated area than mine which is Vancouver, BC, Canada I think. Private clubs in the New Jersey / New York area must be a lot more expensive than $100k to join.

Wrong Open dude. He is referring to The Open ..... as in the one that will be played at St. Andrews this year.

Interesting .... the private club that I belong to currently has a full play wait list of over 30 players (that is the maximum that can be on the wait list). Beyond that they get on a wait list to the wait list. That is at $50k for initiation fee. Which by the way is a GREAT deal considering that the other private clubs in the city have initiation fees of $80k to $100k. There is also a wait list to get into the intermediate play category (21 to 35 year olds). I have no idea why I constantly read comments about golf dying. Golf is not having a tough time here.

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil McGleno That does not surprise me. The point was that ALL players are guests at the club. Seriously the only difference is what-He had to hit from a different section of the range? So what? Why is that even an issue? The members are guests at the club too. And they are not paying by the month for their membership fee: http://www.tpc.com/sanantonio/membership . So you can be a member in a non equity club but you do not pay by the month for your membership? I went thru the link and I could not see where they stated this but I will take your word for it as you obviously know this. So how do members pay for there membership? On a daily basis? My original point was still that having lots of daily play golfers paying a healthy green fee is a benefit to the members (of the non equity) club as it still ensures a higher level of profit for the owner of the non equity club and therefore the owner will be less likely to increase monthly dues to the members. I suspect that given the broad ownership base of the TPC the bottom line of any course is irrelevant to the determination of membership fees. I am still confused on the concept of membership in these non equity courses - The members are guests at the club too. And they are not paying by the month for their membership fee: http://www.tpc.com/sanantonio/membership . Thank you for the clarification Phil. I am certainly going to look into joining when I get down to Phoenix cause that is potentially a great deal.

Two different cases. Case 1 - for courses like what the OP was talking about which are essentially public courses with members who pay a monthly fee so they can have unlimited golf, access to lockers etc. In that case I was suggesting that it would be in the member's interest to make sure that the daily paying guests were happy because those daily fees help to either maintain or reduce the member's monthly dues. i belong to a club like the TPC courses a long time ago. They had 36 holes where one 18 was for members only and the other for public play. There was no separation in the driving range and both courses were in great shape. We members knew that the more public play and the more we could charge because of a superior product for the daily players the better it was for the club overall and would help in maintain our own member dues at a good level. This proved true as in the 10 years that I was a member there was no increase in our dues. Case 2 - I discuss a completely difference scenario whereby I am talking about a totally private course and in that case the daily rates do not have an impact on our operations but we like to treat our guests well because they are our guests. Case 2 is has really nothing to do with the OP's issue. I guess I should not have included it as it obviously only served to cause confusion or am I confused about the confusion. Don't understand your reference to restaurants?

If I were a member at the TPC type of club (where public play is allowed) I would want to make sure the guests are very happy and feel they got their money's worth. My reason for that would be even though I am paying monthly dues. I know that the amount of public fee revenue goes towards lower or maintaining my monthly dues. I am a member at a totally private club (ie where the only way someone can play is as a guest of a playing member). There the rationale for treating a guest as good or better than a member is because the guest is a GUEST. Doesn't everyone treat guests to their house better then regular family members?

Isn't it great that you don't have to hear the morons yelling mashed potato on every drive. Probably why I am turned off watching most of the regular tour. The Masters and the Open are my two must sees. Oh and to keep it on topic ......... go Jordan go.

So how many were ejected for yelling mashed potato or get in the hole?????

No more Disco Dick ??????????

Unless the PGA Tour has changed the rules since the 1980s it should be legal to wear ear plugs if you could wear headsets and listen to music. Canada's very own Richard Zikol or "Disco Dick" used to. http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/golf/disco-dick-entering-canadian-golf-hall-of-fame

Seems to work. In every other tournament this would not work as they are trying to get more spectators. At the Masters its their way or the highway.

This is why I love watching the Masters. You never hear "get in the hole" or "mash potato". I'm sure some will argue that the Masters is old school and not up with the times ..... I guess I am old school. I cannot tolerate the morons that think they are cool by yelling something stupid on every shot.

Yesterday I played with my regular foursome and teed off at 8:20am. We were the 3rd group out and we finished at 11:50am. 3 hours and 30 minutes which is normal for us. I then played in the afternoon at 2:15pm with my wife and another couple. We finished at 6:05pm which is 3 hours and 50 minutes. The tee sheet was full as it was a beautiful sunny day. Everyone in the groups walked the round. My club is an "old school" club built in 1910. Not long at 6,800 yards from the tips. Those are pretty normal times for us. We don't feel like we have to rush and we have time to read putts etc.

Not all of Canada is snow and igloos. 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US/Canada border. Vancouver and Victoria have very temperate climates. Spring has been in full bloom for a month now ........ taken yesterday.

Unbelievable how warm it is so far .... was about 68 degrees when we teed of at 3:30pm. We finished by 6:40pm so a 3 hours and 10 minute round not too bad.

Another beautiful day up here in the great white north.

I don't think I was being arbitrary. "Double the average family income" may sound like a lot but it really isn't. This is a comparison of raw dollars. So in 1980 the player at 100th on the money list made $33,769 whereas the median family income was $16,354 so the golf pro had $17,451 more in real dollar income vs. the median family. This is before his expenses. This is a comparison to the median family and not to families with professionals like doctors, dentists, lawyers etc. Now in 2012 the player at 100th on the money list made $989,753 but the median family income is $49,486. So on a raw dollar basis the golf pro made $940,267 more than the median family. Again this is before expenses. I would suggest that even after expenses the golf pro can put away a lot more for retirement. Now this assumes that the golf pro can live a median family's life style. So I am suggesting that a golf pro in 2012 who is at 100th on the money list is in a significantly better position to be financial set after his golfing career than a golf pro in the same position in 1980. The golf pro in the 1980's would have to be looking to work at a regular job after his golfing career. I don't think the gap between a "journeyman" professional golfer and the average family or even a middle class family's income was ever as large in the 30's to 80's as they are today.

I golfed with a friend of mine who is a member at another private club. He plays to a +2 handicap. He was a teaching pro when he was younger and soon realized that he wasn't going to make any money at it so he joined his family's insurance business and was successful enough to retire in his early 50s. (Well I think he would have been able to retire in his early 50s doing what ever job he chose) We talked about this topic and his opinion was that while he could keep up and maybe even score better than most of the LPGA players on any given day or two days, he wasn't sure that he could keep it up for 4 days in a row. Also while he has played in some local amateur events and there is a "scratch" league that he plays in, none of those events were 4 days long. He has never played in front of any sized crowd so he isn't sure how he would handle the pressure. He also noted that the way the handicap is calculated with only the best 10 out of 20 rounds counted and the use of Equitable Stroke Control, a bad round or a very bad hole doesn't get counted and helps to maintain his handicap. He pointed out that there are probably more rounds that are over his handicap than are below his handicap on his scoring record. He did not comment on whether the length of his drives would help but he is not a super long driver of the ball anyways. He is long enough to be well within 150 yards on most second shots and his irons are spot on. He is also an unbelievable putter. I am no where close to his ability so I don't know if any of his comments are valid.

Since I had long over stayed my welcome at the "Winter depression" thread I have decided to start a new thread whereby my photos will be on topic.

In some previous posts there were some comments as to the difficulty of the average LPGA course setup vs. a normal setup for non tournament public play. I just came across an article written in Golf Canada where my course's superintendent, Dave Kennedy, talks about changes that need to be made for LPGA CP Canadian Open this August: http://www.golfcanada.ca/blogs/article/gordon-golf/season-guardians-greens/ In terms of “heat,” this summer brings significantly more than most, since the Canadian Pacific Women’s Canadian Open arrives Aug. 17-23. It will be the fourth time the LPGA has visited Vancouver GC. To Kennedy’s advantage, he was there the last time in 2012. Also working on his behalf are the mild winter and the less demanding requirements of an LPGA tournament versus a PGA TOUR event. “Other than a few minor changes, the course will play almost the same way it usually does for the members,” Kennedy says, putting to rest the widely held belief that the arrival of a major event totally disrupts the normal routine of a course and its members.

Agree 100%. Until the 90's the average PGA "journeyman" would have made double the average family income, today they would make 20 times the average family income. If they can manage to make cuts and stay around the 100th position on the money list for 5 or more years they would be able to set their family up for life. Then they could retire to a nice country club job until the Champion's tour rolls around and they would give it another go.

Drove the summer car to the club and played under bright sunshine and 60 degrees.

Some interesting facts: US median household income in 1980 dollars $16,354 in 2012 adjusted dollars $46,995 US median household income in 2012 $49,486 Source - http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php So the average family income increased by $2,491 from 1980 to 2012 in adjusted 2012 dollars. 1980 PGA earnings: 1 Tom Watson (7 wins) $530,808 (2012 adjusted $1,523,419) 10 Raymond Floyd (1 win) $192,393 (2012 adjusted $552,168) 20 Tom Kite (0 wins) $152,490 (2012 adjusted $437,646) 50 Ed Sneed (0 wins) $83,573 (2012 adjusted $239,854) 100 Jim Nelford (0 wins) $33,769 (2012 adjusted 96,917) 2012 PGA earnings: 1 Rory McIlroy (4 wins) $8,047,952 10 Keegan Bradley (1 win) $3,910,658 20 Robert Garrigus (0 wins) $3,206,530 50 Jonathan Byrd (0 wins) $1,616,789 100 Davis Love III (0 wins) $989,753 Sources - http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.109.1980.html http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.109.2012.html Observations: In 1980 the 100th placed PGA pro earned 2.06 times what the median family made whereas in 2012 that number is 20.00 times. In 1980 the 50th placed PGA pro earned 5.11 times what the median family made whereas in 2012 that number is 32.67 times. In 1980 the 20th placed PGA pro earned 9.32 times what the median family made whereas in 2012 that number is 64.79 times. Clearly in 1980 a top 50 PGA pro simply made a good income above the average family but didn't make enough money to set his family up for life. In 2012 the top 50 PGA pro had an income that was significantly greater than the average family and the income is so large that it is possible to set up his family financially for life AND THIS CAN BE ACHIEVED WITHOUT A SINGLE WIN. Even a couple of years at 100th money position would enable one to be financially secure for life. I wonder if this has any impact on the drive to win ??????????????

Yikes !!!!!!!!! Ok no more posting luscious pictures of my club while my friends back east are suffering through an endless winter.

Sorry ......... back to staying on topic and complaining about winter. On both Sunday and Saturday we had frost delays. On Saturday it was for 1 hour and 15 minutes so our tee time was moved back from 8:12 to 9:30 am. On Sunday it was for 30 minutes so our tee time was moved back from 8:30 to 9:00 am. By the afternoon we only got to about 60 degrees in the sunshine. A bit too cold for the grass to have significant growth so the greens were not cut on Saturday just the dew was rolled off. Some of the greens were cut on Sunday but they are still a bit bumpy. Also the crew did not rake the fairway bunkers only the green side ones. Damn winter when is spring going to get here !!!!!!!!!