bones75

Alright, I know next to nothing on this topic, but had a random thought. My understanding that “muscle memory” is a lot about neural pathways. And this muscle memory allows a practiced golfer to fire his/her muscles in the right way to swing a golf club. Say in X years in the future, biotech evolves in such a way that electrodes (or w/e tech) can stimulate muscles very precisely. In this future, could you take any fully abled body off the street, wire him/her up, and have them hit a perfect golf swing? I know they do muscle electrode stimuli for certain rehabs already. And with amazing advancements in biotech in recent years, nothing seems as absurd as it used to. I can think of a bunch of derivative thoughts/concepts on golf that this would impact.

well then... that ends that thought!!! XD

he played pretty well. He was very accurate with his driver, ~200 yards w/ roll and playing what I would guess is like a 20-30 yard slice, but very consistent. Bogey golfer. Not sure he is a good example to prove any argument about the swing. For one I'm not good at analyzing swings, so maybe it wasn't even the Venetos swing, it just looked like it to me (very little shoulder & hip rotation, weight dramatically forward). I just thought that maybe the swing might be useful for those w/ a buncha fused vertebrae or something, as it seemed to work for him.

I think I played with someone today that did this swing, as best as I can understand it. No idea if it was specifically the "Venetos" swing, or just something he arrived at some other way. (I remembered this thread, but didn't remember Jim's name, or I would have asked) He was in his late 50's and said he had spinal issues that limited his rotation severely. He said his swing (he called it "pure arms", but ofc there is some rotation as well) is the best way he could make contact after his back problems. I'm not making a position on some of the debates herein, but it made me think of this thread.

Perhaps people experiences with this are correlated to where and when they play. The majority of my time on the course the last 5 years is spent on twilight rounds after cutting out of work early. And I've lived in San Diego, LA and Northern California all where school golf programs are abundant and competitive. I run into HS and college players regularly, and at better schools, the entire team can drive 200+. Even Jr. HS girls are often driving almost 200 yds. And I don't know if women's softball is big thing in California or something, but I've run into many softball players who can smash it. One I mentioned in a previous post was an ex D1 softball player now in her early 40s, and she carried a few drives 260. But driver was like the only club she could hit.

I can only tell you what I've seen in my ~500 rounds of play in my lifetime. When I lived in LA there were a ton of women groups and pairs that played. Scanning the memory banks I would guess 90% of the women I've seen drove it less than 200 yards. 5% were amateurs that have developed great swings and were 200-220yards. And the last 5% were ex or current college players, HS players, or (I've met a bunch for some reason) softball players, who could smash it. I think I've only personally been paired with one women who can carry 260 yards.

@FlyingAce Thanks so much for sharing. I hope and pray that my wife gets hooked as much as you did! @iSank Its funny, but your story really hit a note somehow. I think that my wife meeting another golfer who has the whole package (game & attire) is something that she would really get into. That said, if you can think of any other ideas or experiences on how to keep her motivated, I'd love to hear them. I know many other ladies who did get into it here and there, but never stuck with it. Much of that is out of my control, but I hope some of it is. Earlier in our marriage I was the infamous "instructor husband" when it came to sports, but boy did I learn my lesson. No unsolicited tips anymore and any asked-for-advice I keep super short. Other than that, I'm not sure what else I can do to make it enjoyable as possible for her.

My wife might finally get into golf. I deserve zero credit, as after years of trying the only thing that got her to start playing is her best friend is getting into it. I've heard that women generally improve faster than men, as they're more focused on form than trying to smash the ball. Everyone being different and all.... What would be fair general expectations for score after a year of lessons (say 2-3 a month), a round a week, and (hopefully) a range session a week? She keeps asking me this, and I refuse to give her an answer, but I'm curious what others think. My wife is a competitive tennis player (for people in their 40s), and her friend is basically completely new to sports.

@Cantankerish I do trust your experience but maybe my body just recovers slower than yours? I'm also a slim dude. I used to be a serious long distance runner and never got past "pretty damned skinny" til my 30's and I feel my "natural" body state is skinny. So what happens to you the day of lifting may be happening to me for several more days. Your description of what happens to you on days you lift is familiar to me. But perhaps everybody just has different muscle recovery schedules? Similarly for @TN94z, perhaps Koepka just recovers faster than Cantankerish who recovers faster than me? That said, I just can't imagine any pro intentionally going into a tournament w/ doms. And I know doms hits everybody differently. I know some gym rats that squat 8 plates who still get doms hard every leg day, while I know others who have trained just as long who don't.

I posted in July on this thread on how I was not seeing distance gains (and even maybe some losses) after starting weight training again in 2019. This year, I've taken 3 or 4 breaks from lifting, each 1-4 weeks long. I "think" I've figured out what's happened to me, and am curious what you guys think/have experienced. I looked at my 5 best rounds this year (primarily ball striking, not just 5 lowest scores). On all five of these rounds, I didn't lift for 4+ days prior to playing, sometimes even weeks. I then looked at my 5 most dismal rounds (where I couldnt' do anything right). Three of them were shortly after lifting for the first time after a week+ break. The other two were 2 days after lifting heavy (I still get doms, so usu don't golf day after a lift). Today was a dismal day, I worked out 2 days ago, and I just did the above analysis. I'm a lower body swinger (feels like 99% of my power comes from my legs) and I still have slight doms in my legs today. I was missing about 50 yards from my drives! So for me, it almost seems I need like multiple days to fully recover from lifting ( @GOATee's quote above). Either that, or I'm just so despondent over my round today that I'm hanging on to any crazy theory I can concoct. I know pro's all workout. But maybe they don't lift to failure or lift heavy prior to a tourney? I'm trying to gain muscle mass, so I lift heavy whenever I can.

I was talking about this w/ some randoms I was playing with today. One guy said if my friend is athletic in general, he should try lefty. He said one guy he knew played lefty for 10 years as a 110+ shooter. Then he switched to righty and was a 90 shooter in a year. However, this guy was right handed to begin with (idk why he started golf lefty). Anyone heard of this? That's a fairly big commitment I feel.

Imma put this on the list of things to run by him next time i see him.

In the past I've posted on the struggles/frustrations of one my closest golfing buddies. He love, love, loves golf and it's wonderful. It's just that he isn't improving. His profile: - Mid 40s - Pretty damn fit - Plays or practices 50-100x a year for the last 8 years - Generally doesn't take lessons, but some years he regularly did (gone through 3-4 swing coaches) - averages 108 (got down to ~100 avg a few times, but it always goes back up). He plays from whites. - His distances improve every year. He can carry a 5 iron 200yds on his rare perfect swings (2-3 a game keeps him going). - His shot dispersion is incredibly large in all directions. He has both nasty pulls and nasty slices. - He eats up penalty shots like they're M&M's. - He gets pars, but always has at bunch of quad+'s (he plays out, but is a pace-of-play mindful golfer) - He swings 100% on all swings (I am not exaggerating. It used to be 125% every swing). - Decent/Above average short game. He tries to play "smart" even. Like on a short dogleg par 4, he doesn't try to cut the corner, clubs and aims for the widest part of the fairway. So he takes out a mid iron, then swings the ^#&*$@ out of it, and more often than not finds himself in bigger *#(&#$. As it may show, I personally thinks he swings too hard and is just losing control. Sometimes he agrees, but he just can't stop doing it (or even worse results come from swinging "easy"). Any stories of like situations? If you had a friend like this, what would you suggest (other than "get a lesson")? Is it always like a mechanical thing that helps someone out in this situation? like instruction or a swing change? Or has anybody credited anything else to helping their game out / turning a corner? I almost think he should take a year break, and start again w/ lessons. I used to think it was amusing. Now it just sucks.

Its just easier. My wife always asks me what i shot. She just wants to know how well i played. I could tell her "i didnt finish. I shot 80 strokes on 17 holes, skipping a par 3" or i could say "86" which although technically not accurate, conveys a lot more relevant information to her.

I just always found ESC odd in certain situations. Ive seen this a ton: two guys playing a casual round. 'Dude A' is better and his ESC caps at double, while 'Dude B' caps at triple. They play a casual round, but they're two dudes... so there is always at least an ego comptetition. They both triple a hole, Dude A writes down double and dude B writes down triple. That doesnt seem right to me... especially when they talk about who "beat" who that day (again, still meaningless casual rounds).

i dont have an official handicap at the moment, and actually havent played in a tourney in years. For scores i use my golf app which calcs "what my handicap would be" adjusts for ESC automatically. When i did have a GHIN, of course i post using ESC. Even for casual rounds, it just feels better describing my round to others this way. E.g. i shot a 84 if say i had two quads, vs saying i shot a 80 (using ESC).

For non tourney rounds, typically i do this: I pickup when its looking like quad+* and IF: - I dont want to slow down my group, - I'm playing w people i don't know, OR - the group behind is on us. I playout quad+'s IF - my group is in no rush, AND - no one is behind us. I score pickups fairly conservatively (e.g. if i'm still 180 out over water, i'd score as if id be on in 2 more strokes from there, then 2-3 putts). I dont use ESC. If someone asks me what i shot that day, i'd say my score using the above and typically add "including one pickup". I dont use ESC. I know it could just be a meaningless casual round, but i simply feel its more accurate. You? *i do dramatically speed up my play starting when its looking like double+

Talked to a guy who used to work the scoring tent on the Nationwide Tour way back when. He said it wasn't unusual at all to see 5 hole scores of 10+ in a single tourney. Idk much about any tour other than pga. Is this believable? I googled this topic for 2 min and im surprised at how many high numbers there are on the pga tour (relatively). Is there an online resource where you can download detailed score data for an entire tournament (pga or other)? In like csv, deliminited or ascii format? Would be fun to toy w data.

@iacas (or others) If you'd be so kind, could you dumb this down for me? (I am a self proclaimed dumb-dumb) For 11.1 exception 1: "When Ball Is Anywhere Except on Putting Green. The player must drop the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):" So I get what you're saying that you have to take relief, but when I read 14.3 I can't seem to figure out where exactly the relief area is.

I heard Duval had a 13 today. My kinda guy.

I'm looking at the rules and am still puzzled. Does come to rest mean relative to the earth at large? or just the object the ball itself is resting on? can't figure out where the "relief area" is

this didn't happen to me, just imagined it and got curious. if you hit into the group in front of you and it lands in their moving golfcart, which after travelling some distance the golf ball falls off the cart. Is it in play from there?

I do power cleans in my routine. My tennis coach when i was in HS recommended it for me when my biggest weakness was power (wasn't a "golfer" then). And I've kept it in my routine ever since where possible (a lotta gyms don't allow it). I have only personal feeling data on the matter tho, and in that respect I agree with what you wrote and how it feel helpful to my general strength.

Thanks, these were the general types of thoughts I was fishing for. Wasn't asking folks for a fix, just experience sharing and random thoughts. (I'm very happy w/ my swing coach, thus haven't done the swing vid thing because of the too many chefs in the kitchen thing)

@billchao My 2x a week lifts are full body, big lifts being squat, dead, bench and cleans, then an assortment of other stuff. I do abs on those days as well. Additionally I do core/explosive exercises 2x a week w/ kettlebells/medicine balls/bands etc. I don't have a golf fitness trainer, but I stole a routine and bunch of exercises from a friend of mine who had great success with a TPI trainer. I haven't gotten calipered since ~April, but I believe I've gained at least 15 lbs of lean muscle mass since Jan (noob gains). I'm on top of my nutritional macros like a mofo this year too! As for golf, I am actually playing 50% more this year than the last 2 years,.. average play or practice 1.5x a week (mostly partial rounds or range, w/ about 2-3 full rounds a month). I'm also playing slightly more tennis. Until about early march, i thought I was seeing gains in my golf long game, but for the last 4 months, it's gotten worse. My scoring is about the same, but its because my short game has improved with my increased practice time this year, but I'm losing more strokes in my long game now (again, same or less distance, and more inconsistent). One theory of mine was simple over training and perhaps general fatigue. But if that were the case, I'd figure it'd also show in my tennis game. And my tennis game is on a whole new level now.