Faksakes

I was going to do this experiment on my own as I was not aware of any coaches that taught the way I think it should be done. Every book I’ve ever read, every lesson I’ve taken, every video I’ve seen (until recently) was mechanics focused. If you learn great that way, then cool. That’s awesome. I struggled. Then as I said in an earlier post, a poster here told me to check out a maniac named Robin Matthews Williams. I was surprised to see that there was in fact someone out there teaching what I had been thinking/talking about! He’s hilarious as well, although I’m sure many here would not agree haha. Point being, here was a guy espousing the same points of view I had, and he seems to be having success doing it. Very cool. So I started breaking my “no instruction and no video” rule and checking out his vids. To be fair, again, I was ignorant that this idea was being taught. I should have assumed it was, as everything under the sun has been done. I just hadn’t been exposed to it. So you see I’m not anti-instruction at all! In looking at the comments in one video I saw a guy post about someone else teaching this way in my home city! No freaking way...but it was true. What are the odds? Ok, so update time: I have been increasing my exercise routine and really focusing on building my bone density/fitness on one hand and then focusing on mobility with the other. I have a couple of mobility tools my physio recommended and they are awesome (foam roller, a couple of different balls). So, lots of balance stuff and stretching, some high intensity on the bike and fast walking. I vary things a lot and am using my “course management” ideas for fitness and weight loss as well. I may go into this further at some point if it’s effective. A few days ago I went to a used golf store and bought my first two left handed clubs. I got a Ping Cadence Ketsch Traditional mallet putter. It’s a beauty. I also got a Ping Glide 56 degree sand wedge. Two year old model I think. The putter was like new, the wedge had a little wear but otherwise it’s in great shape. I was really excited getting these clubs, what a weird feeling buying left handed golf gear was though. I got home and started messing around. So far my ideas have held up with putting on the carpet. I don’t think it’s going to be an issue having success at this aspect at all. I’ve been taking some cuts in the yard and inside with the wedge, just focusing on what feels good for my back. I was able to get into a nice rhythm after about 10 half swings and the back was feeling great. No pain at all. Of course I was taking it easy but it was encouraging none the less. Back to the instructor I found that teaches in alignment to my ideas in my home town. His name is Ron Sisson and after we went back and forth in the comments of one of his vids I emailed him my details. My injuries, my plan to learn left handed, did he want to work with me? Did he think we’d be a good fit? What would be the approach he would take? Etc. We decided to talk on the phone about it and had a good conversation. We both think alike on many things. I booked a LESSON with him for Jan. 7th. We are going to start out very gradually and go from there. We’ll start with chipping, small swings, putting etc. If we are on the same page and I think he can speed me along the learning curve then I’m all for it. If I don’t see value then I’ll move along. I have no idea what he thinks about chipping, pitching and putting and if his approach stays the same for those aspects of the game. I think it should, so hopefully he does as well, and if not I’ll just move it back to the long game with him. I feel this approach should be for every shot. I’m excited to talk more with him and pick his brain. Hope you all are having a great Christmas so far, I’m off until after the 25th so going to enjoy it and keep working on things. Thanks for reading and all the best! Hey guys, I am unable to address all your questions as the mods probably don't want this thread going backwards. That's fine, it's their forum. Mods can you please at least post this so people know I'm not just ignoring them

When have I ever said I had a pulse on this community? I have no idea who he is and was responding to his comments. I also didn't say I was going to grind away on the range for hours. I have different methods. Range time is just one. As for no idea if I'd have done better with or without an instructor how about we use common sense? If I can get better in two or three years left handed after suffering a sever back injury, than I was at right handed after 20+ years with instruction then my theories will be proven true to my satisfaction. I think anyone with just a little bit of common sense would agree. That's my final word on that.

First off I spend my time how I see fit, not how anyone else tells me to. It's not a waste of time at all. I have certain theories that I want to see through and see if they work and I aim to do that. You obviously didn't read the op either. I'm relearning left handed. I was a 14 cap right handed and haven't played for 2 years. Anyway I think I can do much better without an instructor and that's part of the challenge for me. I'm going to teach myself left handed using feel and see how good I can get. I think I'll progress much faster than I did playing right handed where I had instruction. There's a guy that someone posted about in this thread that teaches a method that is feel based. Robin Matthews williams. He's hilarious too but I agree with him on the swing. It's how I was thinking about it too if anyone wants to look up his vids. That's basically going to be my approach. Just listen to my body and experiment. The idea is to have zero back pain and just swing free and loose with as little stress and resistance as possible. I think I'm going to kick ass.

Thank you my friend, I know the odds are against me but fun it will be!

Pile on all you guys want, it doesn't bother me at all. I'm going to stick to my guns and see what happens with this. And I'm going to have fun doing it. Fair enough. Yes, agreed. I am moving on. We'll get this back on track and I won't criticize other instruction anymore. Appreciate your comments.

I would use my hands to show him how to stand as a starting point and I would really try and get him to relax. I think when you have the right feel, then everything takes care of itself. A swing won't feel right if your setup is wrong. I'd tell him to experiment with his eyes closed. Take some swings and try different things. Change your setup to make that swing feel good. Move your feet around, try standing taller or more bent over. Now what feels the most effortless and powerful? Ok now take a few more like that. Ok now open your eyes and take a swing at this ball. We don't care where the ball goes, just make that swing. That's about how I'd go about it.

I have a different viewpoint and that means I'm a troll? That's not what I'm doing. This is what I think.

I hear you on all that, I do. And I know you're giving them what they want. But sometimes the patient doesn't know what's good for them. I'd say I'm not that type of teacher up front and let them decide if they wanted to work with me. I'd ask them to take a lesson and if they didn't like the approach then I wouldn't charge them. I just think there is a much, much easier way and I think I might find it experimenting with my ideas. Not upset at all... I'm gonna stop replying to you now. Oops lol. That was an honest typo. I actually have something kinda like dyslexia where I mess up or reverse words sometimes. It really was a mistake. I meant "I have no doubt that he is good at what he does".

Yeah, I said as much the sentence before that. I said I wanted to address something else. "I know you were making point of how people feel different things with this statement but I want to address something else within it:" As for the setup question I have said several times the fundamentals have to be taught. Setup, stance and grip. Past that...not much. And as far as everything else, again I disagree. Why not just stop posting in this thread, as it seems to upset you and we aren't really getting anywhere. You are a teacher that has been teaching a long time. You have a certain point of view based on your experience. I respect that. I have no doubt you aren't good at what you do. I just think there's probably a better way. I'm going to see for myself.

I thought we were done? lol Ok so you are misunderstanding me and thinking I don't understand what you are saying. I'm not going to address every single point but here is an attempt at clarifying. I understand that you teach mechanics and feel. I understand that you think that is a good way to teach. I understand that we are not robots with dials and that you don't think that way. I understand that different people "feel" different things and it's not at all surprising to me, I know that. I understand that they then need to be taught differently as well. I understand all golfers use feel too, including Bryson. I understand he has amazing feel. What I am saying is that the way you are teaching as well as the vast majority of instructors... is hindering your students progress at best and destroying their game at worst. I know you were making point of how people feel different things with this statement but I want to address something else within it: "Grant Waite stood on a pressure plate and would have sworn his weight was 50/50. It was 65/35. If you told him to "feel" 65/35… he would have gone to 80/20 or something. He's been setting up 65/35 for so long, it felt balanced to him." But you don't even consider how absurd the discussion was in the first place. You want your students thinking about how much % of weight is on one foot or the other? You use that to get them to feel what you want them to? It is a horrible thing to tell a golfer that. It's all they'll be thinking about on the tee, well that an the other mechanics you told them about. Your student that took home pictures, notes, drills etc. How he knows what "it should look like" and "how to get to that position"......oh man. Sorry, but I feel for him. (had to make that pun haha) My point of view is that an absolute minimum of technical instruction should be given to most students and that anything past that slows, impedes or reverses their progress. I don't care if you also talk about how the mechanics lead to a certain feel they want. I don't care how many times you mention feel. If you are talking mechanics too, that's what they'll focus on and that will hurt most of them. All we hear on the golf channel, youtube, mags, forums, lessons is almost all mechanics and technical instruction. And this is the approach people take to fix their swings because it's what is preached. Just like that Butch video. And they mostly fail. Even the ones that get lessons. And yes it wasn't a lesson in the vid but that misses the point. It was still instruction and I think this is a poor way to teach people golf. I think it should be the exact opposite. The swing mechanics are what golfers obsess over because it's what is stressed. We're told that's the approach to fix what is wrong. That's what will be in their heads on the tee box like every other struggling golfer out there. The Pink Elephant they won't be able to get out of their head. This is the first one on one lesson that popped up on youtube when I searched. It's really bad. "Face neutral, attack angle good"......ugh..it makes me cringe. I'll probably have flashbacks later lol. This has 721 thumbs up and 12 thumbs down. 721 people worse off than they were before watching it. Oh and I don't know this Don Golfo dude but he sounds cool.

I'm sure there are good teachers out there but I haven't met any myself. I know about a dozen guys that have got lessens and worked hard on their game and have not improved at all or only very marginally. I have yet to meet one adult that got lessons and lowered their cap over the long run. They often get worse. This one guy I work with was about a 18 hc when I met him. Shot low 90's. Over the last 10 years he's taken lessons galore and although he insists his teacher (his second now) is amazing, he can't break 100. He even got really into fitness to help his game. I'm not saying people don't sometimes improve with lessons but I think it's rare. Certainly much, much rarer then they have us believe. The golfer is almost always blamed for lack of commitment etc. I think they're better off skipping them for the most part.

Thanks for the story, it's good to hear stuff like that about him coming back. Disagreeing is all good with me. Thanks for posting.

Well you are a much better instructor than I had or have seen. How do you put it to a student? Something like, "Do you see how this feels when you move this way?" ? or what exactly is your approach. Say for example you are trying to get a student to make a bigger shoulder turn, what would you say to them? Also can I ask, do you think that when they go home to work on something are they focusing on getting that feel primarily, or are they focused on mechanics and technical advice more so? Not taking a shot, just honestly curious on your opinion and if you ask them about that at the next lesson? Ex. "Dan, were you focused more on the technical aspects or the feel we were going for when you were home practicing?" For their homework do you stress feel being important? Really appreciate your insight.

Thanks for your post but I don't agree that all instruction is about creating a proper feel. That might be the intent for some instructors but you almost never hear them focus on it. My lessons not once did they mention that word. Just watch this video from one of the worlds greatest teachers. Hilarious. My lord this is bad. More than a dozen technical mentions (in less than 4 minutes) and only once did he use the word feel and it was just to set up some technical advice haha. This will screw up almost anyone. I hear a lot about "left arm straight" "No, left arm bent" "Stand closer to the ball" "Your path is too far inside" "Your path is too far outside" "You're over the top" "your hand path is not correct" and on and on and on. If they are saying all that to get people to "feel" I think they are doing a poor job. And of course certain feels, change mechanics. Bubba thinking "hit a hook" is going to change his swing mechanics obviously. But he feels how to do it, he doesn't think mechanically about it. Some can for sure do it though, I'm sure there are plenty of guys on tour that take a technical approach and make it work. I just think most would be better off with Bubba's method. All mechanical talk does is make people think about the game mechanically. Just look at the golfers on the range or that you play with. They are always talking about some technical aspect of the swing. Almost never feel. They are all bound up. I think most of us have been paralyzed on the course thinking about a million different things we are supposed to be doing. I think that's the death of the swing for the vast majority. There will always be outliers and exceptions like DeChambeau. Or perhaps that works for very math minded people. I don't know. I just see the approach that has been taken is not working for most. The HC has dropped a measly few strokes over the last few decades. The ball and equipment improvements alone should account for that... Human beings are going to focus on the technical when you speak to them that way. You can say "hing your wrist at 8 O'clock, now do you see how that feels?" and people will focus on "hing my wrist at 8 O'clock. (just an example of what I'm talking about, not that a coach would give that exact advice) It's not a good way to coach in my opinion. It's like saying "don't think about a pink elephant". But all that said I'm willing to be wrong. If my theories don't work for me then I'll say so. If they do work most won't believe it anyway or say the sample size is to small to mean anything, so this is all for me and to provide some entertainment for those of you interested. A giant failure might be as fun as a giant success in some ways. I'm going to learn a lot either way.

Hi again, I checked out Robin Matthews-Williams channel and you are correct, I love it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I had no idea there was anyone out there teaching this idea, and I understand from him that he learned it from someone else. Shouldn't surprise me really, everything has been done under the sun. I also found this guy from the 30's who went by Count Yogi who seems to have espoused a similar idea. I also found a guy on youtube that's doing the same thing as I am, learning golf left handed after playing righty for years. His channel is called "Just your average golfer" if anyone is interested. His approach and mine will differ a lot I'm sure but that makes it all the more interesting to me. (he had a lesson with Robin though, that's how I found him so maybe not that much different swing wise. Not sure.) Anyway just wanted to thank you as Robin will save me some experimenting to a degree I'm sure. So I guess I'm already breaking a rule about no instruction. I should have changed that to "normal" instruction. "Feel" golf only! Have a good day all.