Fatphil

Basically, you paid 125 bucks to play a course that would usually cost you half the price to pay. Same here, we saw these guys setting up a few years ago...asked the price to play...we laughed all the way to the bar...$125 buys a lot of beer!

Talk about schadenfreude....watching Kelly Tilghman faking angst over Tiger after his lawyer goons got her suspended and lost pay was kinda funny,,, as well as the endoresments that Fuzzy lost with the watermelon comment, I had a good chuckle thinking about stones & glass houses.

So I go to the range at lunch to try this out..the result was kind of unexpected. After a small bucket obviously you can't tell much but I went to the range thinking it was a big change to my upper body...actually my biggest surprise was how well it controlled my lower body...I had no sway..didn't even think about my back knee or hip sliding back. The upper body action was a bit funky,,had a bit of trouble with a slight pull and getting the hands inside while controlling the club didn't go real well but all in all I was very pleased with how an upper body move had such a positive effect on keeping my lower body stable. No golf tomorrow...turkey day!! but looking to work on it again Friday..may even play with S&T; on Sat.

OK OK I'm sold,,,off to the range at lunch to try it out!! will report back.

I watched the pros hitting shots using S&T; but never saw them lock up the back knee as taught by the S&T; guys. (just an observation) As Erik said these are exceptional atheletes who have incredible upper body action. I would like to see a before and after of a 15 handcper who has been professionally taught S&T.; To me the biggest hurdle for the avg Joe (me included) is lack of flexibility in the lat muscles combined w/ weak hands and wrists that leads to an early release (casting) and even a negative uncocking of the wrists in the backswing. I just get the feeling S&T; works for a good player with sound fundementals but is a bandaid for a higher hndcper.

lived on a golf course for 8 years...got at least two balls in the back yard every day and about every 6 months a window would get blown out...but the only one to ever get hit was the dog! If u ever buy on a course be sure u know where the tee is!!

Started playing in '69, broke 90 in '72,,,broke 80 in '73,,,been stuck there ever since. I think the leap from consistantly breaking 80 to a sub-5 hndcp is hugh requireing far more time than the avg player can dedicate. I live in S. Fla, can play every day if I had the time but to shoot 75 or better on a regular basis is a goal I don't have the time for nor the athleticism to accomplish.

Great suggestions UTTexas...some hot Asian babes is what the GC needs,,,now that's a happy ending.

yeh we got a guy in our group,,,athletic, ex baseball guy hits the living crap out of the ball but can't break 110. If u are a 36 hdcp and hit 160 yd 7i u got power but like the guy in our league his swing faults glaring. This is where me as weekend player disagrees with all the "tour pros" who say learn how to hit the ball hard and then work on techique. I think a pro needs to get the player to swing properly, with coordination to hit the sweet spot with an inside attack and a square clubface. To me that is incredibly difficult to do at any speed let alone full bore. Look that the LPGA, they swing drivers in the low 90's and shoot 68's. on an equip note, I can't hit Cleveland's to save my life..switched to Titleist years ago and never looked back.

Why can't anyone get a decent Korean American that can communicate with these players? As we can see by AK, Koreans can be fun. There's got to be hundreds of them in LA alone that are in the entertainment biz, fluent in english with reasonable Korean. Isn't there a Korean David Fererty out there???

You want to go from a 20 to a 4 at a golf academy? I think a pact with Satan may work better.

KS8829..brilliant vid from YouTube. That was the best explaination I have seen of a very key fundamental. Great Post!! Kilbyman,,,watch the vid..

F Costco,,,I got a great Maxfli @ BJ's for $15.

Eh Hopper, I'm 53 been playing 40 years pretty much non stop. My driver ss is mid 90's gets me max about 240 carry under normal conditions..I think any player can get into the mid 90 ss with good technique, however, over 100 you need technique & be in good physical condition. A lot of SS depends on good shoulder & core turn married up with an aggressive lower body move...which at our age is very stressful on the knees, hips and lat muscles..I personally choose not to go there and I'm happy with 240...and by the way Trevino may look kinda dumpy but so does Roger Clemens and CC Sabathia..don't be fooled the Mex is an incredibly gifted athelete

Groovezilla, you make an excellent point. I never really thought about it but yeh the flt path is different. My draw does start out where I aim. I line up square down the right side ball starts out straight & if all works well (ha ha) it ends up center. Honestly at an 8 hdcp I don't try to work the ball unless I have something in my way and I usually screw it up anyway. Regarding Tiger I got a pet peeve w/ touring pros teaching..those guys are exceptionally gifted atheletes who practice insane amts of hours..what they say as throw off lines can in fact be moves that take uncommon core strength or coordination and thousands of range balls. ie Tiger saying "oh just turn you chest, shoulders and arms all together to control your wedge" ha ha no shit bro.. or Sergio saying "oh just drop your arms straight down from the top to get my lag" yeh right nothin to it!!! That is why I find this thread so interesting because I believe it address' the most critical fault in the avg guys game and one that with a little bit of effort can actually be accomplished by the weekend player. Casting or as iacas says the "no release". Maybe it's just me,,,let me know if I'm off base.

I think it is worth a moment to remember how a good player hits a draw or a fade. They do not change their swing path, they come into the ball exactly the same way…down the line or slightly from the inside and if the clubface is square the ball goes straight, if a degree or two closed it is a draw 2 or 3º open it’s a fade. Talk of a 180º roll of the clubface is not what is happening. If a player needs to roll their hands 90º in order to square the club face that strikes me as way too much manipulation. I think that player is fanning the club on the backswing,,,whipping it way inside the hands and may not understand how to correctly cock the wrists

I'm new to the site but this thread is one of the most interesting I've read in 40 years of playing. I can see what that pro from Cali is saying about release as a teaching aid however I fully agree with the iacas poster that any player hoping to break 80 should "get" the no release concept. An overlooked point in this discussion is the leading edge of the club coming into the ball. What led me years ago to pay attention to the "no release" idea was noticing my iron divots as toe first. A toe first impact to me was a sign of casting as the wrists over released by waist high in the downswing. Unfortunatly too many of us are forced to practice off mats and never get to see our divots. It has been helpful to me to picture impact as the heal and the toe of the iron impacting the ground at the same time and letting my body work out the details. Has anyone else used this swing thought?

Casting & (lack of) Lag I believe are one in the same. I prefer to concentrate on holding my wrist cock 12" before transition...thru transition and 12" into the downswing. I agree,,thinking about lag or release just screws me up all the time. If I freeze my wrist positions thru the transition I usually get a solid hit w/ and inside out path and decent lag for my age and hdcap. I think a lot of people have trouble with this move because it is physically stressful on the hands, wrists, forearms and leading lat muscles and there's an aversion to pain.

I believe lag and casting are related. For me the hardest thing to do is to lock in the wrist cock from 12" before transition to 12" past transition. When I can do it,,,I get a clean hit with decent lag. I think the avg player has a tough time with holding the wrist cock thru transition is that it's physically difficult to do and it puts a bit of strain on your leading lat muscle as well as your hand an forearm muscles. While I have never been successful at "creating" lag, I have had some luck at controlling casting by focusing on transition which seems to help the lag issue.