Wade Patton

I'm all hickory all the time now. Just finished the second ever hickory tournament at a great course not too far away. It was such a blast I just don't have time for modern gear now. What does that have to do with swinging the club? Manuel's teachings seem perfect to me. I'm performing better with less struggle every year now. Also using Manuel's setup I don't rip big divots on every fairway shot. I hardly take a divot at all now--which is much easier on the delicate shafts of wood. It's also very much easier to pick a ball out of hard sand for a running shot. I'm playing better golf with less capable clubs because I changed my swing from the body-parts-orientations/movements type of thinking to his "swing the club" and let your body figure it out way of thinking. Most folks will never understand this, and that's ok, I know where I'm at, and what it took for me to get here and how much MORE enjoyable my golf is now. Birdies to you all.

This is why clubs with offset "feel" weird to me. I avoid them. Been playing with 85 Palmer Standard's, but am switching to my 84 Hogan PC's next. But the Wilson's are still my favorite. I'd love to snag a 1-iron in that model. Also the Wilson 2i is going to be about like a modern 4i but with a longer shaft -and zero offset. I'm messing with hickories now...🤪

Had back issues early in the week. Got over it Thursday. Happened to have fair enough weather to play Friday after work... WHOOOPS!!! I forgot to put ANY clubs in the car that morning and didn't have my usual three-sets to choose from (just in the car). I knew I had some balls, but wasn't about to drive home and back for clubs (an hour round-trip). It's just a par-3, six-hole course, so I only needed one or two clubs and a putter. I called my pal to see if he wanted to play (and we could share), nope he was busy. I went by a second-hand sporting good store to see if they had a cheap single club I liked (trying not to buy the Hogan Cameos they've yet got in there-at this time). No dice there. So I dug around in my car and did find ONE old ratty 5i from about 1968. I don't even know where I came up with it, but it's a lot like the irons I started with as a boy. Still has the original leather grip with a reminder ridge (hate those). Anyway. I went to the course, sat out the downpour, and did a one-club challenge with that old blade. Result: I was on ALL but one of the greens for birdie putts. Three of which were short birdie putts, but hey I was putting with a 5-iron. I did two bump and runs and three landed on the wet greens and stopped. The first hole is about 88 yards down hill and very damp in front of the green, any sort of flier will plug up if it hits short. I bumped one up there it hit about two thirds of the way to the green and rolled up about 10' right of the hole. Then I hit the second green about about 110 yards and the ball stuck (fresh downpour had the greens a little softer than usual) but had a long putt-toughest green on the course. Then I hit the third, missed the fourth--bumped up and two-putted for bogey. The fifth hole is about 55 yards and has a postage-stamp sized green, and a three-foot tall bump right in front of the green, to prevent rolling one from tee to green over the flat fairway. I chopped one into that bump and it bounced right up and over--rolling up about 12' from the hole. Missed it, but would have only been my second birdie ever on that miniature hole. (I nearly holed one there last year). The very longest hole, about 130 yards I pulled the shot left somewhat--but not off the green! I knew it was time to leave. Going around another time might have been as good, but it could have easily been a lot worse. And the sun had popped out making the humidity rather thick, plus I had other stuff to do and a social. Now I'm going to polish up that club and hang it on the wall. And I'll keep a set in the car at all times now--never know when the opportunity can strike and my opportunities are limited. As I had long suspected--it ain't the equipment that makes the game. I had a great day with about the last club I would have ever selected for a one-club challenge-just because circumstances and some well-practiced rhythmo!

I bought it second-hand on auction. "Bombay" is on the box and there's a plaque for engraving inside the box with mounting screws. No other info to be found. I might get a pic later. It's a wooden box, black velvet lining, wooden shaft, Ping-ish putterhead with three lines.

A travel putter kit: Three-piece shaft and head plus a wooden "horseshoe" for a hole, in a wooden case. Took it out and assembled (because I thought that I'd not like the putter) and it's great. I knocked one in and then stuffed it all back into the box. I have plans for this thing.

Strips of leather for new grips on my hickories. I love whipping.

Bought a watercolor of Jack putting in a tournament with Arnie and his Army looking on. It commemorates a big win of Jack's over Arnie around 1959. I don't recall all the details. But I wanted some art and these two were magnificent players and men.

A couple of hickories: A great looking niblick and a deep-grooved mashie-niblick. The bidding was fierce but I won. Probably paid too much, but they'll be fun and interesting.

Swinging my backup set of WSTBFF's the last two times out, still a lovely blade after all these years. Hit some really sweet and consistent shots with the mids and low irons, with no opportunity to swing the 2, 3, or 4 of late. But the last time I hit 'em on the range they were feeling great too. My Palmer 85's are quite similar. I've yet to figure out where my Hogans fit in. I just keep rotating through those four sets, to see if I ever declare a favorite---whilst en route to hickories.

I simply do not give a hoot any more. No matter how much it means to you, or golf as you see it. I'm sorry that's not getting across. I'm very happy with my golf. You are completely correct and I only have weird notions based upon nothing. I do not have the energy or motivation to go through your replies and refute or discuss or dissect all that has been said. I apologize completely for ever posting to this thread. Yes it' not about me, it's about all this new golf tech wonderment and those who wish to pursue that avenue of the sport. I'm -dunn- this time. I shouldn't have posted this reply but here it is.

I can shoot my age on nine...no problem! 😂 But also that's a goal with my rekindled golf drive (for a proper 18). I'm 56 so I've got about 20 years before it becomes any sort of possibility. I had a slump after my post above in October. Actually it was the very next weekend when I had a rotten round. This led to a re-thinking of my entire dynamics and I've found a new line of thought, a simpler swing that works for me. It has taken some time to begin to get the new setup to feel natural, but it's coming along very nicely. Last outing was brilliant but for the putting and most of that is caused by the wonderfully difficult little greens on the course I play most right now. I hit four of the first four greens (all par3) in windy conditions yet mild conditions, only making one birdie, but had a lot of "tap in" pars and nothing worse than a few bogeys. My Palmer Standard '85's were the tool for the day and I was very pleased with them. Here are two shots of note: The orange ball was the third hole and a full 9-iron I let the wind play with. The yellow ball wasn't super tight, but I loved it because it was a great result using a choked down grip, and a half-swing with a 5i on 140 yard hole, with a 20mph tailwind. It was my last hole and I had actually decided to hit a second shot with my 9 (was only carrying 9,5,and putter because it's a par3 course). I had quickly worked out the dynamics of how to hook the nine to get it to run that far (old time "weak" lofts you know). I think I had more mental energy tied up in what I was planning to do with the 9, and the 5 shot was just "instinctive" after I said "half swing" to myself as I lined it up. After hitting the first shot that close I didn't even try the 9. I was ready to get out of the breeze and on with my day. Birdies to all in '23, May they all fall and bounce right in.

Here's what I tried to edit in above, but went over the time limit. It goes in the front. None. Sorry.[edit] I have now glanced at it and here are my comments: Yes, one must grip with more force as dynamic forces increase-all a function of speed. That's exactly what I'm saying-that grip is dynamic according to the forces created by our swing. Swinging faster will always require more grip pressure, but that doesn't mean that my hands are weak. I work with my hands, pretty sure they'll grip just as hard as I need for as fast as I'm going to swing. How fast that is I don't know and may never know. When I feel my hands drive through as they used to--I get inconsistencies. When they only retain the club, I get much better and more consistent/accurate results.

None. Sorry. Okay I've come back around to see what all the fuss is about. I apologize for getting "testy" before, but I wasn't expecting so many opposing views and being effectively chastised for not "listening to" or "respecting" the instructor member(s) here. As I restated before I wasn't looking for instruction. I play by feel and performance, and have my instructors. I was looking to see who else had felt the restrictions/freedom created by excess tension in our gripping. Thought I had found one. And then someone comes along questioning my level of game, so here's to that: I have no index posted because I haven't posted any scores in dozens of years. I started when I was 14-15 years old (and miles from any course). I was playing with my dad and his friends, and quickly got good enough to beat most of them (enthusiastic duffers). My handicap was 16 (pre-index system) when I was 16 and I only played a handful of years after that. I played in a few tournaments and lots of scrambles, one day I beat a 4 handicap at a tough course in FL. Then life happened and I didn't play golf for 30-ish years. I just started back swinging a club in May of last year. I'm just now getting my swing back after a "false start" five years ago. It has been a little bit of roller coaster, but I'm on the fast track now. Last outing was great, it included only one birdie*, but nothing worse than a bogey, and plenty of pars). I practice way way more than I play. I've always practices a lot more than I play because I only play tour-blade type irons and they don't allow a lot of goofing off. I've collected eight more sets of those to go with my original Wilsons that I was swinging back when. I'm absolutely doting over my Palmer Standard 85's now. Such lookers and so many tight shots on Friday, I'll be swinging them for a while yet. Folks can decide for themselves if Manuel de la Torre's concepts and swing are "outdated". I think they are perfect and should yet be taught. I don't see anything (not really looking) that tech has revealed that changes how a body swings a clubhead through a ball and launches it toward the target. We've got folks copying Moe Norman's technique now even--and I get that, because it worked so well for Mr. Norman. But it still looks really odd to me when I see folks using that setup and swing. Moe owned it. I don't see that level of development in the few I've watched attempting to own it. But they hit some nice shots. And that's all fine with me-it starts with a different grip and I'm not going there. I like my grip. I yet hold to the notion of the dynamic variations on grip tension, different for everyone, just as de la Torre explains and illustrates in the old clinic. My swing is simpler, easier, and I don't think about grip or grip pressures any more. They're just natural-and always sufficient to retain possession of the club at every level of force with which I swing my clubs. As Manuel points out grip pressure is different for everyone but it's not something we have to think about--just like we don't have to think about positions and what body parts are doing what in order to swing a golf club effectively and consistently. Old hard grips will naturally cause one to use more pressure if his/her swing is fast enough, just to hang on to the club. How much more? I don't know but grip pressure engages the forearms and if you over-engage them the free dynamics of a golf swing are no longer free. They're restrained a little bit-the feel changes and motion is inhibited. Which motions depends on the individual and how his/her hands grip the club. I imagine many if not most folks these days haven't played with old hard grips, but I have-and way too much. In my view this is detrimental to a free swing. I've regripped three sets now and have a couple more old sets with fresh grips. This makes it quite easy to use "proper" grip pressure as I understand and practice it. It's they perfect amount that retains the club at every speed and never inhibits the freedom of the hands and forearms to do their natural job in returning the clubface through address position at full song. I should have/could have started my own thread when I originally replied to this one, but I had searched up a relevant thread and just jumped in all ignorant of new tech and info that still seems irrelevant to what I want to do. I'm doing what I want to do and loving it. I'm not thinking about how to swing anymore, only about where the shot needs to go. And I'm actually going to get some hickories and give them a try. Seems like a lot of folks are having fun with those. I prefer doting over clubs rather than dissecting swings. Anyhoots. Y'all go right on and grip it any way you want to. I had a short period of over-gripping and it was not helpful for me. My grip is now balanced and dynamic and naturally responsive to the centrifugal forces generated by the effort I put into each swing. It just works. Experimenting with pressure and hearing "my" instructor as well as many great players speak to the finesse of the grip is how I got there. I'm not copying anyone because we are all slightly different, yet much the same. I've hit thousands of shots since my original posts in this thread and there's simply no questions or thoughts needed for my grip at this point. I hope everyone finds his/her perfect grip engagement level. It will be dynamic by the nature of our form, and it's not complicated. HNY! *The first half of my birdie on Friday, wind was 20mph gusting to 26 despite the limpness of the flag in this pic:

I now have two sets of them. One in stiff and the other in regular shafts. I don't even know which is best for me now, but my newest favorite is another set of recent acquisitions (worked beautifully today) Palmer Standard 85's with stiff (TTDG) shafts. I've finally gotten my swing established and settled down enough tho appreciate the differences in shaft characteristics. Next to get the Apex line sorted. And I'm sure I'll slow down into regular shafts eventually. But I have loved the Wilson's for a long time. They just work and feel great!