Mordan

I've played with good golfers who hit those sort of distances, but they tend to top out around the mid single figures range. And those guys are deadly inside 100 yards and on the greens. Every medium distance course I've played has at least one and often two par 3s that you won't reach with your 160 yard 6 iron. And a couple of par 4s that are over 400 yards that you won't be reaching with those distances either. So that's 3 or 4 greens you can't reach without even hitting a bad shot. Now remember that the PGA average for hitting the green from 150 yards out while in the fairway is only 75%. So even if you reach that level you're probably going to miss the green another 3 or 4 times per round. Again this is still without putting a ball into the trees, or the water or out of bounds. Without a very good short game and dynamite putting you're no where near playing to par.

So if I'm in a green side bunker I can take an unplayable, walk out of the bunker and drop my ball anywhere I like as long as it's no closer to the hole? Depending on the shape of the green and the position of the bunker I could very well be dropping on the green.

Do these videos have a hypnotic element that convinces people that they should join The Sand Trap and post in this thread as their first post? It's uncanny.

Wow 5 posters with only one post each in a row. And the final one trying to sell something.

The good news is that on Twitter he's down to a 0.5 handicap. Now I never knew you could have different handicaps for different internet sites, but there you go.

What do the pros do better than nearly all amateurs? They get the same results out of their swing over and over. What helps you to get the same result over and over? A swing that is easy to repeat. So to get a swing that is easy to repeat, that will give me the same result as often as possible where am I going to look? At those who do it best, pros.

I don't own an Andriod phone so couldn't tell you if they have a non-removable compass or not. A compass is not the only "app" that woud make a phone illegal to use as a DMD, but it is the one that causes the issue for iPhone owners. If an Android phone does not have an "app" or feature that violate the rules for a DMD then of course they can be used. There's been no fence sitting, and no change of stance, just a lot of misinformation on the subject. The ruling bodies position has remained the same throughout, but while it would have helped avoid a lot of the misinformation if they'd been more specific I can somewhat understand their reluctance due to how quickly things change with technology.

I think the previous thread may have gotten sidetracked into the weather app issue, but as Rulesman states, the ability to access a weather app was never an issue with phones as DMDs. The iPhone is illegal as a DMD not because of its weather apps, but because of its compass, and the fact that you can't remove the compass app.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth. But you've basically just restated the point that I didn't understand previously, that doesn't help me. What is this model position they're trying to achieve? What are these important conditions, and what exactly is this position that is unattainable? Regarding the right leg/knee, "not straightening" could mean retaining the full address flex in the right knee, or it could mean not fully straightening (ie. locking the right knee). If you like to see it straighten but not lock then maybe start a thread about that, you'll get plenty of people agreeing with you. I also seem to have misunderstood your statement of "leaving their weight on the target foot" being a problem to mean you want to see a shift of weight away from the target foot. Can you clarify?

So what you're really against is golfers being taught to try and achieve a particular club position at the top of the backswing, with little regard for how they get the club there or the rest of their body position at this point? You probably won't find too many friends around here with your comments about straightening the right leg, or shifting weight backwards on the backswing but at least they're points that we can have a meaningful debate about. If you'd been specific about the exactly which parts of "most teaching" you disagreed with from the start then I think this could have been a much more useful thread.

Ok, well then you're not going to get agreement from me. I'd say that (with some notable exceptions) the pro's swings are the most effeicient and most repeatable of all swings. That's why the hit the ball the furthest, and the most consistently. I'd never say I was just trying to "swing like a pro" but trying to achieve the elements of their swings that allow them to be efficient and repeatable seems a very logical way to go about things to me. Why would I not want to make whatever steps I could towards the most efficient and repeatable swing I can?

Patrick, I think the problem is that after 14 pages most of us still don't understand what you're saying. You just keep talking about a "natural swing", and haven't answered any of the questions posed to you. You just keep saying the same things, phrased slightly differently, like that's going to help us but it isn't. Your example of how you'd start a session to help someone slicing was the first time I had any insight at all to what you mean in this thread. If all you've been trying to say is that you don't agree that sitting someone in front of a slow motion video of a pro and saying "swing like that", or telling someone to aim for a 8.5 degree shaft lean forward is going to help then I think most people would agree with you. If you spent a little less time posting, and a little more reading you'd see that most of the swing help people receives follows a basic pattern of analysing a video (slow motion helps), then often providing a model example of what the person should try and achieve (mostly using a pro as they're good examples!), and then some suggestions of feelings or drills the person can try that might help them achieve the desired result. Is this the pattern you're so against?

This was from the competition tees, which are just over 6,600 yards at my club. Not a long course by modern standards but it's no pushover. And he's not one of those kids who dominates in his age range because he's first to mature. He looks every bit of a 13 year old kid. His parents seem pretty supportive, so I'm sure he will give it a shot but there's such a long way to go that at this stage he's no more than one of many in a similar position at this point in time.

Not quite on the topic, but the club championship (scratch) at my club last summer was won by a 13 year old. There's probably around 700 members at my club, so no mean feat and the fact that he brought it home by a couple of shots in the final round in very trying conditions shows he's pretty strong under pressure. I think he's currently playing off 1, and while he's considered a prospect there's a long way to go before he can even consider making a career of out playing golf. Something for the OP to think about.