Not Fair!!!

[scottevans77]

I guess it's kind of "Do as I say, not as I do" then. I used to never wear my seatbelt. Whenever my wife would say buckle up, I'd always say "I've been driving for 15 years without one, I don't want to jynx myself now." and just leave it off. Now I wear mine though, not because of concern for my own safety, but simply because my car has an annoying beeper that won't shut up until I'm buckled in.

[EquipmentJunkie]

The point of the posting was not that I don't think I was in the right for not wearing mine, the point was that the officer was not wearing his either. I have several friends who are police officers, so yes I know I should be wearing it, but he should have been wearing his as well. To a man they all swear they wear theirs at all times, their department requires them to. My argument was if he isn't going to wear his, don't pull others over for the same thing. It bothers me with the double-standards. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an officer hit his lights to get through a busy intersection, only to cut them back off after he is through and end up seeing his car on down the road where he is grabbing a bite to eat. My buddies admit they do this, they find it funny that I get upset about it. They see it as a "perk" of their job, I see it as an abuse of having the authority/power to do it.

The point is you missed the point big time, it is not a double standard. You as a normal citizen do not understand and you won't until you work a beat. People like you will continue to portray themselves as victims...I don't buy it. It's time as a society that we stop blaming ourselves and the law when someone is caught and start blaming the offender.

[deronsizemore]

Actually, that depends on the state too. In Kansas you don't need one but in Missouri you do.

Yes that its a state by state law (as is the seat belt law), and you do have ot wear your Helmet here in Ca....states can over turn these laws there are no federal seatbelt/helmet laws, however it is in the states best interest to implement these. If they do not they will loose a large percentage if not all of their federal infrastructure grants and funding. Hey here in California you can not use your cell phone without a blue tooth or hands free device and if your under 18 you can't talk on a cellular phone at all, even with a hands free device.

Thanks for the explanation guys!

I can't tell you how many times I've seen an officer hit his lights to get through a busy intersection, only to cut them back off after he is through and end up seeing his car on down the road where he is grabbing a bite to eat. My buddies admit they do this, they find it funny that I get upset about it. They see it as a "perk" of their job, I see it as an abuse of having the authority/power to do it.

This does get on my nerves a little. I don't view it as a "perk" either. I've heard of them doing it, but can't say I've actually seen it with my own eyes. I always see them turn the lights on to get through the light, but after that, no idea if it's an emergency or they are just in a hurry to get to McDonalds.

That, and everyday driving to work I have six or seven state police cruisers zoom past me (I work in the same city as the State Police headquarters) going at the very least 85 (speed limit 70). That gets on my nerves too, but I guess that's another "perk." My college roommate is a State Policeman and I know some of the stuff they get away with and while it's not fair, what can really be done about it? Not much...

Lastly, although I was too young to personally remember him, one of my cousins was killed when he flipped his car, couldn't get out because of his seat belt, and burnt to death. Does that make it right for me to not wear mine? No. But it does show that there are instances where wearing a seatbelt has actually been a detriment, so I think it should be a personal choice.

I can understand what you're saying here. I had a friend in high school that had a car wreck and was told that had he been wearing his seat belt he would have been killed without a doubt. As it was, he was thrown from the car so when the car flipped into a tree and smashed the roof in, he wasn't there to take the impact.

Of course you have to realize that the percentage of accidents where people are saved because they aren't wearing their seat belt is extremely small. I'm not taking those odds.

[jonanthans]

The point is you missed the point big time, it is not a double standard. You as a normal citizen do not understand and you won't until you work a beat. People like you will continue to portray themselves as victims...I don't buy it. It's time as a society that we stop blaming ourselves and the law when someone is caught and start blaming the offender.

One last time...I didn't say I was a "victim", I readily admitted I was not wearing my seatbelt and I knew why he was pulling me over. You obviously "missed the point". The "point" of the post was it is required that he wears a seatbelt as well, but he wasn't, yet he chose to pull me over for the same infraction. Please, read the post several times if you have to before responding. I understand you probably are a police officer and you likely do follow the rules, but this guy wasn't, yet has no problem writing citations for people doing what he is doing. Double standard.

[immts007]

but this guy wasn't, yet has no problem writing citations for people doing what he is doing. Double standard.

Who cares? Whether or not he deserves his own ticket is another subject... you weren't wearing yours, you were in violation of the law and it was his job to give you a ticket. It may create a paradox on the personal level of the officer in question, but between you and "the law" there is no paradox or problem. You deserved your ticket. End of story.

Also, usually police are exempt from most traffic law, because their job often requires them to break them. I think things like officers wearing seatbelts is usually covered under departmental policy. I recall reading somewhere that very few on-duty officers wear seat-belts.

[EquipmentJunkie]

One last time...I didn't say I was a "victim", I readily admitted I was not wearing my seatbelt and I knew why he was pulling me over. You obviously "missed the point". The "point" of the post was it is required that he wears a seatbelt as well, but he wasn't, yet he chose to pull me over for the same infraction. Please, read the post several times if you have to before responding. I understand you probably are a police officer and you likely do follow the rules, but this guy wasn't, yet has no problem writing citations for people doing what he is doing. Double standard.

Are you dense, seriously? You obviously can not read. It is not a double standard. He is not required to wear it BY LAW....do you get that. On duty police officer are EXEMPT (that menas they do not have to follow) most traffic laws. Even if he was wearing it, he took it off long before deciding to pull you over for OFFICER SAFETY REASONS. I will let you tell me how to do my job when you get a badge and a gun. I have 2 buddies with career ending injuries, gun shots to the head and neck, because the thug they puled over got out and shot them....why didn't they get to cover in time?...because they had their seatbelts on. I am not going to leave mine on just to make you feel comfortable when I pull you over, in fact you shouldn't be looking at my seatbelt, your attention should be on the road. Grow up and pay your fine.

[jonanthans]

Are you dense, seriously? You obviously can not read. It is not a double standard. He is not required to wear it BY LAW....do you get that. On duty police officer are EXEMPT (that menas they do not have to follow) most traffic laws..

You are obviously the dense one, re-read back a few posts, I already told you that I have friends on the police force, and they all stated it is their departments requirement that they wear their seatbelts . Did you get it that time? Again, try READING ALL the material before you respond. You are so caught up in trying to enforce your opinion due to you being a police officer that you are missing the point of the post. If he wasnt REQUIRED to be wearing his seat belt too, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But since he is REQUIRED to wear his, and wasn't, then he shouldn't be writing tickets for others doing what he is doing himself. This post is not an attack on police officers, I have many friends who are officers, this was simply an instance where I feel he is abusing his authority. My buddies who patrol say they wouldn't write a seatbelt ticket if they weren't wearing theirs, so I guess there are different approaches with everyone. It is just a discussion board, yet you start name calling and accusing people of telling you how to do your job. It's that aggressive, jerk attitude that makes the public dislike you guys. Calm down, man, it's a message board. edit: Directly from one of my buddies, who is a Detective with the MPD., his department slashes benefits 50 percent if officers who get in a duty-related car accident are found not to have been belted. His take on it is that officers who take an oath to uphold the laws of their jurisdiction are expected to serve as an example and obey those same laws.

[immts007]

You are obviously the dense one, re-read back a few posts, I already told you that I have friends on the police force, and they all stated it is

hey Jonathan, mang.

There is a difference between departmental policy and law . And again, it really doesn't make any difference does it? You broke the law, you got busted. That's the way its supposed to be. If you really have an issue with the officer, why don't you file a complaint?

[EquipmentJunkie]

You are obviously the dense one, re-read back a few posts, I already told you that I have friends on the police force, and they all stated it is

Department policy varies but as non-law enforcement you would not know that. Put on your belt or suffer the consequences again, end of story. Want to talk to me about police policy? Go to a post certified academy, pass 6 months of training and 2 months of probation, then we can talk! Until then you sound like an immature kid, "it's not fair"...grow the hell up law breaker.

[The Rambler]

That's not cool about the ticket but it is in your best interest to wear it. In PA it's a secondary law meaning that the fuzz can't pull you over for that but if you get pulled over for something else, like speeding, they can write you another ticket for not wearing it.

[jonanthans]

Department policy

Do you follow your Department Policy? If your Department requires you to wear your seatbelt do you, or do you not? If you do not, that makes you the law breaker. End of story. But wait, if you had paid attention in your post certified academy, paid attention in your 6 months of training and probation, then you would be able to realize that if it is something your department REQUIRES you to do, and you did not do it, THEN YOU ARE THE LAW BREAKER! , which with every post you make ignoring the fact it is required here, just shows the DOUBLE STANDARD.

[jonanthans]

That's not cool about the ticket but it is in your best interest to wear it. In PA it's a secondary law meaning that the fuzz can't pull you over for that but if you get pulled over for something else, like speeding, they can write you another ticket for not wearing it.

I agree it is in my best interest to wear it, I also readily admitted I was in the wrong. It used to be a secondary law here as well until 3 years ago. Now it's a safety law, yet here you can still ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Go figure..

[iacas]

Do you follow your Department Policy? If your Department

I'm sorry, but law and policy are not the same thing, and that's where your story truly ends.

Police officers aren't required to follow a lot of traffic laws. I know this as a normal citizen. What if you were a felon and you turned around and started shooting at him? Clearly you can understand why the cop would not want to have to unbuckle a seat belt before diving across the seat, getting out of the car, or at least un-holstering his weapon. You're being a jerk, jonanthans, and you will stop now.

THEN YOU ARE THE LAW BREAKER![/COLOR], which with every post you make ignoring the fact it is required here, just shows the DOUBLE STANDARD.

Still not right no matter how many times you say it. So do us all a favor and stop.

Lastly, although I was too young to personally remember him, one of my cousins was killed when he flipped his car, couldn't get out because of his seat belt, and burnt to death. Does that make it right for me to not wear mine? No. But it does show that there are instances where wearing a seatbelt has actually been a detriment, so I think it should be a personal choice.

In the end, seat belts save more lives than they cost, so while I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, it's irrelevant, off-topic, and quite frankly cheapens your post just a bit.

Again, don't make it mandatory for me to wear a seatbelt because you are "concerned for my safety", yet make it perfectly legal for the guy standing next to me to legally smoke a cigarette that is proven can cause me to contract Cancer via second-hand smoke.

Not the same thing and you know it. Not even close.

Hopefully this conversation's over. I mean it is, but hopefully everyone agrees and I don't have to actually close it.

[EquipmentJunkie]

Agreed we can end this and for the record I did notice that you mentioned policy not law. My department does not have a seatbelt policy, so you shouldn't assume all do. Second, a breaking of policy is not a breaking of law as you can not be cited under vehicle code for breaking that policy, you can only be administratively disciplined by your employer...being late is against policy for most occupations, can you be arrested? No, please don't be silly about confusing policy and law it really hurts your credibility. And last most department seatbelt policies allow the officers to take off the belts BEFORE initiating the traffic stop (that means before getting on the radio to notify the dispatcher and before turning your overhead lights or siren on)...that is what my academy and training has taught me :)...thanks. Point is, don't assume so much, there is no double standard. For a double standard to exist here there would have to be law requiring both you and the police officer to wear his/her seatbelt at all times when the vehicle is in motion, there isn't....on duty officers are specifically mentioned in seatbelt laws and they are exempt. In your scenario there is but one law breaker and it ain't Mr. bluesuit, it's joecitizen. I can say the positive point in this thread is that everyone minus one dissident agrees that wearing your safety belt is important.

[jonanthans]

You win, I'll assume the Rodney King role, you and the moderator have successfully beat me into submission. I apologize for thinking I had the same right as an officer of the law, even though my local officer friends seem to understand exactly what I am saying yet you can't seem to grasp it. Forgive me, for I have sinned. From now on I will just take what these guys give me, regardless of whether I think I was in the wrong or not.

As for closing the thread, you do whatever you think you are entitled to do. There have been no personal attacks or foul language, it is an expression of 2 seperate opinions, that is what a forum is about, so just because you side with one doesn't mean everyone neccesarily does. But, since you have the authority to do so, do what you want to. Ironic, isn't it.

[EquipmentJunkie]

It seems to me you just have an issue with police officers in general, saying that you have friends on the force does not excuse derogatory comments. It's just like people who utter racial slurs and then attempt to justify it because they "have a black room mate." There is no winning here, and there are no opinions....there is right and wrong as defined by the law and in this case the law is on the officers side, that's it. You are allowed to contest citations in court if you would like, though I highly doubt you would win.

[iacas]

I apologize for thinking I had the same right as an officer of the law, even though my local officer friends seem to understand exactly what I am saying yet you can't seem to grasp it.

These are the same local law officers who supposedly saw the logic in your other argument about smoking or whatever. And that's all I'll say about that...

You have the same rights. You can't seem to get that through your head: policy != law.

Forgive me, for I have sinned. From now on I will just take what these guys give me, regardless of whether I think I was in the wrong or not.

This country has a court system for those who think they were wrongly accused. Had you availed yourself of that, the judge may very well have laughed at your response: "But judge, he didn't have his seat belt on either."

There have been no personal attacks or foul language, it is an expression of 2 seperate opinions, that is what a forum is about, so just because you side with one doesn't mean everyone neccesarily does.

YELLING IS LAME regardless of whether or not it's in the form of a personal attack or not. I think it's clear you've been behaving poorly.

Furthermore, this isn't a difference of opinion. EquipmentJunkie is in law enforcement and clearly knows the LAWS. You couldn't understand "policy != law." That's not "opinion."

[jonanthans]

My friends who are police officers I have no problem with, why? Because they are not hardheaded power hungry figures who think anytime someone disagrees with them that the person is "questioning authority". Also, please do not try to use me as an example of racist, you obviously feel like that, doesnt mean that I have to. I have no problems with police officers, so please show me where I made a derogatory comment! Please, point out where I made a derogatory comment about police officers. Your problem is that you posted, saying you are a cop and stating rules, but when I didn't agree with you, then you attack me and my opinion. You see a difference between department policy and law, well one of my police buddies wants to ask you "whats the difference?" if your job requires you to do one thing and you do another, that is putting yourself above the rules/law. You chose to disregard some policies yet follow others.