flat swing+strong grip=hooks with driver !!!!!!!

[pshizz]

ok, so i hit my irons very nicely usually, with a high draw, however once i move on to the 5 wood and driver things go sour. I have a flat swing wit my driver along with a somewhat strong grip. This results in me releasing my wrists too early and hitting ugly hooks. Once in a while i will counter this with a large slice, but i cannot seem to find my old tempo and rythem. i know what im doing wrong, but can anyone help me with a tip so that i wont release too early. it is frustrating becuase drives used to be my strength.

[JerseyThursday]

ok, so i hit my irons very nicely usually, with a high draw, however once i move on to the 5 wood and driver things go sour. I have a flat swing wit my driver along with a somewhat strong grip. This results in me releasing my wrists too early and hitting ugly hooks. Once in a while i will counter this with a large slice, but i cannot seem to find my old tempo and rythem. i know what im doing wrong, but can anyone help me with a tip so that i wont release too early. it is frustrating becuase drives used to be my strength.

I’m in the same boat, except when I lose the drive right it's more a block-out than a slice (goes right with no spin). The only thing I have found to get the wrist action back to where it needs to be is I swing a the Momentous (the weighted club with training grip) 30 swings a day, a few days out of the week, and my drives and other shots improve.

[Mr Eagle]

Forget about the wrist action guys. Your trying to run before you can walk.Nice and slow through the ball,As long as your set up is right and your swing is consistant they will go straight,why destroy all your good work by moving the clubhead offline ? for what ?an extra 10 yards when it works? The wrist action will come naturally when you are playing confidentally and well.Ease up LIGHT GRIP and SLOW it down to a blur

[misty_mountainhop]

Hmm. Is it just me or would it seem logical to correct the strong grip?? Get the fundamentals right and most of the rest tends to follow.

[U345387]

The problem with your driver swing is what you have correctly identified - a swing plane that is too flat. I struggled with this as well so will share what has worked for me. The flat backswing brings you to a fork in the road on the downswing. 1) you can come into impact along the same (flat) plane and try and time your release to square the clubface, or 2) you can re-route the club over the top and come in steeper from the outside. Depending on your timing, this can result in a variety of bad shots.

As you identified above, when your timing/tempo is on, you can hit great shots from this position, however, you will continue to be frustrated with your consistency.

You need to work on getting the club steeper going back so you can approach the ball on the proper plane. When you do that, the wrist action through impact will be much more of a passive response to gravity rather than a "handsy flip" type release.

just my .2. This is obviously much better to try with a set of eyes behind you. If you do not have the ability to see a teacher or use a friend, try rehearsing your takeaway and pivot in the mirror at home and then before you hit each ball to engrain that new feeling.

[Chas]

Nice post '387. It's all about the swing plane in my opinion, most of the rest will then just come "naturally", assuming a decent grip (not difficult, surely). Have you noticed that many professional golfers do one or two little moves back with their arms first, just maybe 20-40 degrees of arm swing, before taking their full swing. The point of doing this is to set in their minds the correct plane for the arm triangle and shoulders to move back on - it is very critical to get this right, from the get-go.

Almost always when I hook the ball, it's because I'm going back on the "inside", i.e. my hands are too low on the backswing and nearer my back than they should be. I then will either push it right or hook it left. You may find that being on the correct plane actually feels like you're too high with your hands and may slice the ball, as in the bad old (early) days of your game. Don't fear this. If you DO overcorrect and get outside on the backswing, you'll find out soon enough and can make the necessary adjustment. Might even be a good idea to try to do it on purpose on the range, to get a feel for the two extremes - you should be in the middle!

You've got to change what feels comfortable to you, because it probably isn't getting you on plane. This is not so easy, even knowing what you're trying to do. Such is golf my friend! (like the candidate said ..... )

[cigarnut81]

The problem with your driver swing is what you have correctly identified - a swing plane that is too flat. I struggled with this as well so will share what has worked for me. The flat backswing brings you to a fork in the road on the downswing. 1) you can come into impact along the same (flat) plane and try and time your release to square the clubface, or 2) you can re-route the club over the top and come in steeper from the outside. Depending on your timing, this can result in a variety of bad shots.

There are two proper planes! The one plane and the two plane golf swings. The only part of the swing that matters is at impact. The rest of the golf swing is just to facilitate square solid contact. Do what ever it takes to make square solid contact. That is all there is to it. You can play golf with any ball flight that comes from proper contact.

[Chas]

Hmmmmm .... true, but probably not so very helpful to a lot of people. The big question being, what do I do previous to the instant of contact that makes the ball go where I want it to go? The concept of the swing plane is very powerful from that point of view, in my most humble experience anyway.
Best, Chas.

[pshizz]

Hmm. Is it just me or would it seem logical to correct the strong grip?? Get the fundamentals right and most of the rest tends to follow.

thanks for the concern, however the srtong grip is not the main defect with my driver swing i believe its more the flat plane. i hit amazing shots with my irons which have the same grip.

[wachesawgolfer]

Perhaps you are too steep somewhere in your swing at the top. That would explain the strong grip (compensating factor) and occasional slice. If your hooks start right and then left, that's one thing, but if the flight is leftward, then curving left that's more of a pull/hook. You need someone to check it all out. Steep moves causing pulls and slices are pronounced with the long clubs but hardly noticeable with irons and appear to be nice draws.

Hogan stated over and over again that you can be flat, he was flatter than he said, but steep anywhere kills you with bad shots.

[Chas]

"Hogan stated over and over again that you can be flat, he was flatter than he said, but steep anywhere kills you with bad shots. "

This is confusing - maybe I'm misinterpreting. Hogan really emphasized being on plane, which is not consistent with being "flat" if that means that you go back below the correct swing plane. He was very big on the whole swing plane schtick, his book has some very nice drawings that illustrate matters very well. Some good players go back a little high at the top, then drop down into the correct plane as they start the downswing (think Jim Furyk ....), but I wouldn't mess with that at this stage.

If you're too "flat", you're gonna either hook or push, or a combination of the two, until you go half-raving bonkers and they drag you away muttering incoherently. You will almost never slice or pull for the same reason.

Trust me, I learned about all this the hard way.

[jambalaya]

chas and 387 covered it quite well for you I think.

[kc8kir]

Hate to burst anyone's bubbles, but you can slice and pull and hook and push with a flat swing.

Remember it is all controlled by impact conditions. Wanna slice or pull with a flat swing? Put the ball forward in the stance and get too fast with the arms vs. body. Club hits the ball as it is cutting back to the inside, resulting in a pull or slice. From the same position, you can also hook the ball or push it, if the body gets too far ahead and causes the club to cut too sharply from the inside.

Gotta look at the total picture. Not everyone who have flat swings are hookers, and upright swings are slicers. That's a really gross oversimplification that ignores what really matters... how you arrive at impact.

[Chas]

As always, generalizations involve making certain assumptions to reduce the number of variables from something approaching the infinite - in this case we assume that the golfer is not overcompensating in one way or another or making some other basic mistake (e.g. in ball position). If you want to improve you need to be aware of major correlations such as that between a "flat" (aka inside-to-outside) swing and pushing or hooking the ball. Conversely, that between an outside-to-inside swing and slicing or pulling the ball. Heck, the physics of the situation dictates it.

Is this more of a semantic issue? At any rate, my bubble bursteth not, though my cup runneth over ...

[kc8kir]

"Ha ha! I see then good sir that we meet the end of our battle of wits. We will therefore decide this matter as men of honor, by virtue of blades. Have at thee!"

Sorry couldn't resist.

Anyways, I agree there are some common correlations, but they don't always hold true. I really was trying to point out that just because a swing is "flat" doesn't neccessarly mean the impact path is "inside to outside". You can have a flat swing and still come "out-in". The reverse is true with an upright swing.

Probably just arguing semantics.

To the original poster... we need swing video!

[Chas]

I think we are probably agreed. One can certainly over-simplify, and yet generalities also hold true.

For one thing, a midget will have a flatter swing than the average basketball player, from the onlooker's perspective ......

To be serious now: I have just one question for you Sir ........... foils or epees ?

* dusts off 40-year old foil in garage *

Later: I have an avator that covers this nicely. If only I could find the blasted thing ....

[wachesawgolfer]

"Hogan stated over and over again that you can be flat, he was flatter than he said, but steep anywhere kills you with bad shots.

"As golf faults go, it is not too injurious if your club and arms travel on a plane a little flatter than the ideal one. However, you are headed for disaster if you thrust your arms up above the plane so that they would shatter the glass Poor golfers make this error at any and all stages of the backswing, but it occurs most commonly when they are nearing the top of the backswing. Then, when their arms are about shoulder high, they suddenly lift their arms almost vertically towards the sky-crash! goes the glass and their shot. They conclude the backswing on an entirely different and far more upright plane, with their hands and forearms and elbows pretzeled all over the place." Ben Hogan, Five Lessons... at page 79. (you need to picture Hogans famous plane of glass with his head poking out)

[Chas]

I have taken to carrying around a dustpan and brush on the course, the more easily to pick up the nasty shards of glass and avoid injuring those who follow. I almost invariably break the plane from below ..........