Hole Handicap vs Player Handicap

[pittpanther]

When looking at a scorecard, each hole is numbered 1 thru 18, which is a measure of the hole's difficulty. 1 is the "easiest" hole on the course, while 18 is the most difficult.

Does this "handicap" factor in any way with the handicap of the player? Suppose two players with different handicaps are playing each other - does the hole handicap come into play anyhow?

Or is the hole handicap simply a measure of hole difficulty on that particular course?

[Fourputt]

When looking at a scorecard, each hole is numbered 1 thru 18, which is a measure of the hole's difficulty. 1 is the "easiest" hole on the course, while 18 is the most difficult.

I isn't even a measure of difficulty if the course is handicapped correctly. It's a measure of the probability that a bogey golfer will need a stroke to match a scratch golfer on that hole. The #1 handicap hole is the one that a bogey golfer will most likely need that stroke, and the #18 handicap is the hole where the need is least.

The hole handicaps are really only applied in match play. When 2 players of unequal ability are playing a match, the better player gives the higher handicapper the difference between their handicaps in strokes. For example: Joe is a 10 handicap Bob is a 15 handicap The difference is 5. So Joe plays off scratch (0) and Bob plays off 5. That means that Bob will get a stroke on each of the number 1 thru 5 handicap holes. The rest of the holes they will play even up. In stroke play the handicap is just subtracted from the total number of strokes taken at the end of the round. The hole handicaps are irrelevant unless you are just playing 9 holes and the player's handicap is an odd number. In the above example on a properly handicapped course, Bob would get 3 strokes on the front 9, but only 2 strokes on the back, because the standard recommendation is that the front 9 has the odd number handicaps and the back 9 has the even numbers. But still the particular holes that they are given on would be irrelevant. Hope that helps.

[goblue107501]

In stroke play the handicap is just subtracted from the total number of strokes taken at the end of the round. The hole handicaps are irrelevant unless you are just playing 9 holes and the player's handicap is an odd number. In the above example on a properly handicapped course, Bob would get 3 strokes on the front 9, but only 2 strokes on the back, because the standard recommendation is that the front 9 has the odd number handicaps and the back 9 has the even numbers. But still the particular holes that they are given on would be irrelevant.

I have used hole handicaps in stroke play when teams are involved. I play at my friends club from time to time and they have a big men's group that uses handicap for their game. If you are a 5 you get a stroke on the handicap holes 1-5 only. Regardless of where they are on the course. If you are a 15 you get strokes on handicap 1-15 regardless of where they are on the course. They also use it to even out the skins game as well (Which I don't agree with, but it is their course). This is typically a team game with each foresome competing against the others.

I play in a pro-am event every year and for the amateurs we are given strokes on the harder holes based on their handicap. I play as an 8 for the event, so I get a stroke on handicap holes 1-8. This is formatted as team game using the best score for the group. I have heard of people doing what you are saying; "I'll give you five a side" as an example. If you are just playing against another person I can see where it wouldn't matter where the stroke came from. From my experience, the hole handicap is used in stroke play, but mostly when it is figuring a team score for the hole. Just remember that the holes are 1-18 based on most difficult (1) to easiest (18), in theory anyway. They don't always play out like that, but it is a good judge.

[RemyM]

Just remember that the holes are 1-18 based on most difficult (1) to easiest (18), in theory anyway. They don't always play out like that, but it is a good judge.

Not True. They should be based on the difference in average score between two groups of players having a 15-20 stroke difference in handicap. There are other variables that determine the assignment, as the low numerical holes should not be at the beginning or end of each nine.

http://www.usga.org/questions/faqs/h....asp?FAQidx=25

[iacas]

I isn't even a measure of difficulty if the course is handicapped correctly. It's a measure of the probability that a bogey golfer will need a stroke to match a scratch golfer on that hole.

Spot on. I do some of the course ratings in my area, and here's an example of something that dramatically increases the probability that someone will need a stroke.

By definition, a scratch golfer hits his tee shot 250 yards, and subsequent shots 220 yards. That's why 470 yards was the old "standard limit" for a par four. A bogey golfer hits his tee shot 200 yards and his second shot 170 yards. So, build a 420-yard hole and, by definition, there's a good chance the worse golfer in the pair will get a shot on that kind of hole. http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...ng_primer.html There are two legitimate ways of assessing handicap strokes. The first is by analyzing the course ratings. The course ratings are different for bogey and scratch golfers, and the bigger the difference, the lower the handicap number, alternating sides. The example above about a 420-yard hole plays into this example. The better way is to submit several hundred scorecards. The USGA will analyze the cards and see where, statistically, shots should be allotted. Par fives tend to be lower handicap holes because, for a low handicapper, they present lots of time to recover and typically a birdie or par chance. For the high handicapper, they present lots more opportunity to screw up. Whether they're "easy" or "hard" is thus relative.

[Jay-Bird]

Another note:

The odd numbered handicap holes - 1,3,5,7,9 - are on the front 9; while the even numbered handicaps are on the back 9.

[Fourputt]

I have used hole handicaps in stroke play when teams are involved. I play at my friends club from time to time and they have a big men's group that uses handicap for their game. If you are a 5 you get a stroke on the handicap holes 1-5 only. Regardless of where they are on the course. If you are a 15 you get strokes on handicap 1-15 regardless of where they are on the course. They also use it to even out the skins game as well (Which I don't agree with, but it is their course). This is typically a team game with each foresome competing against the others.

This is true for team comps, but it is actually a form of match play within the team to determine what score(s) count(s) for that hole. You "match" the individual net scores for the hole within the team, then record the lowest (or 2 lowest in some competitions) for the team score. That way the match play application can factor into what is still a stroke competition.

The same theory applies in a skins game. It's a match format to determine who wins the skin for a hole. And the hardest to easiest is not how hole handicaps are assigned if it's done correctly. It's a popular misconception, but that isn't how it's done. See Erik's post above.

[sacm3bill]

The hole handicaps are really only applied in match play...

I know Rick knows this but for the sake of completeness I'll add: The hole handicaps are also used when submitting scores for incomplete rounds, in determining an estimated score on the unplayed holes. From

Section 5 of the Rules of Handicapping :

If 13 or more holes are played, the player must post an 18-hole score. If 7 to 12 holes are played, the player must post a nine-hole score. In either case, scores for unplayed holes must be recorded as par plus any handicap strokes that the player is entitled to receive on the unplayed holes.

[iacas]

I think you meant par 5's tend to be LOW (i.e. harder) handicap holes.

Yeah, I think I must have been using the word "high" as if on a list, which you read top to bottom, 1 at the top, 18 at the bottom. Or it was just a brain fart, I dunno... thanks. I fixed it above.

[Fourputt]

I think you meant par 5's tend to be LOW (i.e. harder) handicap holes. Conversely, par 3's are almost always the highest (i.e. easiest) handicap holes on the course because even a 30 handicapper has a chance of hitting one lucky shot and making a birdie or par, whereas on a par 5 they have almost no chance of makign par unless they string 3 or 4 "great" shots together.

It all depends on the hole design. On my home course the par 5 holes are handicap 2, 3, 7, and 8. The par 3 holes are 14, 15, 17 and 18. The shortest par 4 on the course is the #1 handicap hole. The longest par 4 is the #4 handicap (the lowest handicap par 4 on the back 9). So there are other considerations than just length or difficulty. These ratings have changed over the years I've played the course too, related to changes made to the course. The current hole ratings seem to be accurate for match play purposes... matches seem to play pretty evenly between players of differing abilities, and that's the whole point of having the course rated for handicap purposes.