Ma Deuce on a Container Ship

[gibbous]

No, I'm not trying to convince anybody that a firehose and an RPG are an even fight. I wouldn't insult anyones intelligence like that. My point was just that a firehose has historically been an excellent tool for preventing would-be pirates from physically getting on board your vessel without escalating the situation by attempting to kill them. For the people on the ship that is the best possible outcome.

Speaking as someone who has been all over the world on cargo vessels I can say that I would accept the inherent risk of taking a ship through a dangerous place as part of the job I chose to take. If that means there's an astronomically slim chance that I'd be taken hostage and killed in a worst case scenario, so be it. I probably take worse chances than that driving on the freeways in LA. What I would not accept would be a shipping company expecting me to endanger myself to a much greater degree by arming me and automatically turning the rare confrontation into a full on gun fight. And there is nothing simple about transferring people on or off a vessel at sea. If we were to try what you suggest I would wager that more lives would be lost in the process than pirates would be responsible for normally.

There are plenty of things that happen every day all over the world that are contrary to what the US and every other civilized country believes in, but just throwing a bunch of localized money and firepower at a global problem usually isn't a solution on its own. So while I wholly support taking action against piracy, it just has to be realistic action with realistic expectations for results. Nobody on earth has the power to completely stop piracy, never have and never will.

[Surefire]

If anything needs to be done, the proper solution would be to use military support, not to arm individuals.

You guys know that you can already get an escort anyway? A few of other nations have been cashing in:

For added peace of mind there is the option of hiring a private warship to watch over your vessel. "A full military escort by the Yemen navy through the Gulf of Aden currently costs $50,000 for three days," says Mr Davis. His company rents patrol boats off the Yemen navy and passes the cost onto merchant ship owners who are prepared to pay for the service. "If you are hijacked you are going to have a bill of not less $5m... So that is a pretty small price to pay for guaranteed security," he adds.

Source

[WilsonWedgeMan]

No, I'm not trying to convince anybody that a firehose and an RPG are an even fight. I wouldn't insult anyones intelligence like that. My point was just that a firehose has historically been an excellent tool for preventing would-be pirates from physically getting on board your vessel without escalating the situation by attempting to kill them. For the people on the ship that is the best possible outcome.

Navy and Marine vets that I work with say it's done safely every day....I was in the Army, and have no experience with water transfers, so I'll take their word for it. as for completely stopping piracy, from what I read, it's only happening in one part of the globe, to the extent where ships are at risk EVERY DAY!!!! we CAN eliminate it with enough force, but the backlash from the PC followers would be outrageous.

[Laxplayer201092]

No, I'm not trying to convince anybody that a firehose and an RPG are an even fight. I wouldn't insult anyones intelligence like that. My point was just that a firehose has historically been an excellent tool for preventing would-be pirates from physically getting on board your vessel

Would the situation not be escalated by this point? i mean they are attempting to board your ship.. correct me if im wrong but this would be no different then someone breaking into your house. I am sure that the workers on these ships are already shooting water at them, but we can all see how far thats gotten them..

As for the issue of getting men on and off of a ship, i asked a marine buddy of mine, you can fast rope of a helo onto a ship no problem, but sence these vessels are not desighned for something like a helo landing on them, that route would be harder (but not impossible) to accomplish. He said that getting them off through small boats before they exit international waters would not be hard. Hell if the pirates can do it, i would assume a trained detail could do it. What i dont understand is this, the pirates carry guns, no one seems to be doing any thing great to stop them, but when the law abiding people on board these ships try to carry weapons to protect themselves it is a crime. The wrong people are being punished.

[gibbous]

Would the situation not be escalated by this point? i mean they are attempting to board your ship.. correct me if im wrong but this would be no different then someone breaking into your house.

I look at it more like being a teller confronted by violent group of bank robbers. I am much more willing to risk my life to protect my home and family from an intruder than I am to risk it protecting a ship/bank and a bunch of insurance company money. The majority of these situations do not end in bloodshed at all, so I would feel no need to force the issue. And honestly if ten heavily armed Somali pirates broke into my house I don't know how much of a fight I'd put up even if I was armed. If they were there to harm people I would only be able to stop a few of them before they killed me, and if they were just there to rob or kidnap me cooperating from the outset would be my best bet to survive.

I can see how people would disagree on this but it makes sense to me to play the odds and not give them that extra reason to try to hurt me. Especially since a ship does actually have a decent chance of preventing them from ever getting on board without firing a shot.

but sence these vessels are not desighned for something like a helo landing on them, that route would be harder (but not impossible) to accomplish.

That's the problem, the average merchant vessel is not designed to regularly handle any sort of helo operations. Maybe I overestimate the severity of danger, but there are enough things that can go wrong with all the variables of the ship, weather, and sea that repeatedly doing something like this would almost have to end in disaster once in a while.

Not only that but the ocean is just very big, and the the logistics and cost involved with constantly moving people on and off even a fraction of the thousands of ships that pass by Somalia alone would be mind boggling. Seriously, who would pay for that?

What i dont understand is this, the pirates carry guns, no one seems to be doing any thing great to stop them

I think the friendly Naval forces of the world are doing a pretty decent job responding wherever they can. If you're an American ship that puts out a distress call and someone like the Indian Navy hears it, they'll come help you if they can. But like I said before, the ocean is huge and it's impossible to be everywhere at once.

as for completely stopping piracy, from what I read, it's only happening in one part of the globe

I don't know where you read that, but they were quite wrong. It happens all over the world, but the coasts of Africa and SE Asia are the hotbeds. The Malacca Strait near Indonesia and Malasia used to be the worst part of the world until the Gulf of Aden took over their spot. Basically anywhere there is rampant poverty and a little opportunity, there will be piracy.

The page below has some pretty good information on it. If you read through the incidents in the live report it's pretty simple to see how widespread the problem is, and how many of the attacks were thwarted without the use of deadly arms. http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?opt...map&Itemid;=219 Again, I know there's plenty of room for disagreement on this issue and appreciate the discussion here. It's a tough nut to crack for sure.

[WilsonWedgeMan]

I look at it more like being a teller confronted by violent group of bank robbers. I am much more willing to risk my life to protect my home and family from an intruder than I am to risk it protecting a ship/bank and a bunch of insurance company money. The majority of these situations do not end in bloodshed at all, so I would feel no need to force the issue. And honestly if ten heavily armed Somali pirates broke into my house I don't know how much of a fight I'd put up even if I was armed. If they were there to harm people I would only be able to stop a few of them before they killed me, and if they were just there to rob or kidnap me cooperating from the outset would be my best bet to survive.

I visited the link you provided, and see that it truely is happening elsewhere... but Good Golly Miss Molly, overwhelmingly it's in one certain area.....

[RussCan]

I heard an attack was foiled because a ship was wrapped in barb wire. Maybe an option.

[gibbous]

but Good Golly Miss Molly, overwhelmingly it's in one certain area.....

There's a piece that might help explain how this all came about

here , apparently the pirates are not the only ones that have been taking advantage of the current state of lawlessness in Somalia. Though I almost can't believe the whole nuclear/industrial waste dumping allegations. Almost. If all this stuff is true I think it makes it at least understandable how people could be driven to the point they're at currently.