Help with dreaded pull shot

[Bookin Weasel]

I was wondering for a bit of advice from the collective knowledge of the community.  My problem is with the occasional pull shot.  I have found my pattern of pulling shots usually surfaces later in a round when my legs/back are somewhat tired.  Yesterday, in ~95° heat I found around the 14th hole my tee shots went from a nice baby fade to the big huge straight pull 20 yards left of my target.  It wasn't a pull fade, it was the straight pull.  I had my friend look at my setup and he/we came up with:

1. My alignment was good.

2. My posture was good.

3. Tempo was the same as it had been all day before I had pulled any shots.

I have been told that if your upper body "outraces" the lower body then a pull is a definite possibility.   When I get tired later in the round and I see the first of these pull shots appearing would it be smart to make sure, that is mentally emphasize, that I make a fuller/wider shoulder turn so that I decrease the chances of my upper body being so open at impact?  Is this a sound move or will it just add another problem?

I am a slight OTT player, but these pulls can wreck a good round.  Thanks for any wisdom you can offer.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Bookin Weasel

I was wondering for a bit of advice from the collective knowledge of the community.  My problem is with the occasional pull shot.  I have found my pattern of pulling shots usually surfaces later in a round when my legs/back are somewhat tired.  Yesterday, in ~95° heat I found around the 14th hole my tee shots went from a nice baby fade to the big huge straight pull 20 yards left of my target.  It wasn't a pull fade, it was the straight pull.  I had my friend look at my setup and he/we came up with:

1. My alignment was good.

2. My posture was good.

3. Tempo was the same as it had been all day before I had pulled any shots.

I have been told that if your upper body "outraces" the lower body then a pull is a definite possibility.   When I get tired later in the round and I see the first of these pull shots appearing would it be smart to make sure, that is mentally emphasize, that I make a fuller/wider shoulder turn so that I decrease the chances of my upper body being so open at impact?  Is this a sound move or will it just add another problem?

I am a slight OTT player, but these pulls can wreck a good round.  Thanks for any wisdom you can offer.

So a straight pull would be a shot where the face is aimed left and the path is left about the same amount.  If the shoulders and hips rotate at too fast a rate that could cause the path to be too far to the left.  I think the face being left is just a compensation.  I'd suggest feeling like the left knee is staying flexed longer on the downswing, get the hips more forward which will control how fast the shoulders can open.  Check out these threads.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

[Derek Ong]

Fatigue can cause many bad habits to rear its ugly head. When i used to have that kind of issue as you've described, i focus on keeping my tush back on the downswing. I personally believe the pull is a compensation for early extension, so we flip. Try it...or not. :)

[Bookin Weasel]

@mvmac....Thanks for the two links.  I thought I knew something about club face and path, but after reading the second link I realized I was completely wrong.

@Derek....thanks for the tip....I will try this the next time I get fatigued- which in the summer is usually around the 14th or so hole...

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Bookin Weasel

@mvmac....Thanks for the two links.  I thought I knew something about club face and path, but after reading the second link I realized I was completely wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to read it

[eye21942]

Derek--

I have exactly the same problem and in addition to coming late in a round, it seems to be related to achieving a good shoulder turn and arm extension (on the takeaway) -- as thought it is a (perverse) compensation for achieving something good.  Would you explain how keeping the tush out in the downswing works?  I.e. what does it accomplish that prevents the pull?  Thanks!

[Mattplusness]

It might also be a culprit of sweaty palms..

[Derek Ong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eye21942

Derek--

I have exactly the same problem and in addition to coming late in a round, it seems to be related to achieving a good shoulder turn and arm extension (on the takeaway) -- as thought it is a (perverse) compensation for achieving something good.  Would you explain how keeping the tush out in the downswing works?  I.e. what does it accomplish that prevents the pull?  Thanks!

@eye21942 -

Thanks for reading my post.

I find (including myself) a lot of mid to high HCPs tend to get out of our spine angles during the downswing, esp when we're getting tired. It really is not intuitive to a lot of people to keep their angles through a golf swing, which would explain why it's harder to achieve the more tired we get.

In the downswing, before impact, if one is humping the goat (i.e. standing up, thrusting hips/belt forward towards the ball), you will change a few things you have set up in the first place. Some of these are:

- swing plane

- laying off more (clubface opening vs plane) or flattening of plane

- actual distance between hands and body

- etc etc etc

Why a pull? i think (again it's unqualified and IMO) is that when we goat hump too early in the downswing (there are good goats to hump which could be useful at the later part of the downswing, etc):-

- clubface is too open, so the only way for us to hit it is to rapidly close the clubface. This is not easy to control. Also it could cause us to swing Out to In in order to close the face. So we either end up pulling the shot OR we hit a big push slice OR we hit it FAT (because we're trying to rapidly steepen the attack to return to where we were).

You could also say when we goat hump early, the hips will get in the way of the hands (a lot of teachings have been trying to tell us to "clear the hips" etc) but i think that's really relative to the ball position at address and the real cause of it is the opening of the clubface rather than hips getting the way of hands.

Keeping spine angle (keeping tush back) during downswing puts tremendous stress on lower back and hamstring (it's not natural IMO). Some of these muscles are just not very well conditioned in our normal day lives, esp if we did not pick up "proper" golf at a very young age (or if we don't have regular pro lessons that will condition these muscles.

Please take all that with as much salt as you want. :) In any case, i sincerely hope it helps you, cos it has helped me a lot.

P.S. I also find a lot of people tend to take a simple but famous drill for granted (including myself). The put a chair/bag/post behind your tush and keep it there (even touching it) in the downswing to impact is something most high Med/Hi HCPs should be part of the driving range routine.

[eye21942]

Thanks for the explanation, Derek.  I tried it (keeping the tush out) even without understanding the why of it, together with an attempt to keep a straight spine, at the range today, and it seemed to work perfectly.  Won't know for sure until Saturday when I play next.