johnny2balls

Listen, this has nothing to do with being on a high horse or throwing you under the bus. I'm trying to help you and make a point. Yes I have been wrong before and I learned the hard way about this, I'm trying to help you so you learn the easy way (on a forum and not on the course) Years ago I thought I knew the rules. I read the rule book many times over and didn't even know a decision book existed. I, in all my wisdom insisted to a playing partner on a rule. I was wrong and by my being wrong it cost him a tournament. I then went home felt bad about (still do) and re-read the rules book, found about the decision book- read that a thousand times and signed up for about 5 USGA rules seminars. I now have a fairly decent grasp of the rules yet still know when to zip it if I'm not 100% certain on the rule. My point about your post is that you posted it as fact. In fact here is your first line "Nope, as soon as you put down that 2nd ball, that ball is in play." You sound pretty darn sure of yourself in that line. You even cut and pasted rules etc... Even though you had two guys post ahead of you with the correct ruling. When it comes to the rules of golf there are no opinions. It's all fact. Either you know the rule or you don't. and my point is if you don't or are unsure it is wise to say you are not sure and take it up with the committee. In stroke play you have the option to play another ball but in match play the call has to be made right then and there, even if you can't get a committe member out quick enough to help. If a person is asking a rules quesiton on this forum or any other one, it does him no good to have people answering with opinions or "i think" or I assume".......or worse guys answering as fact when in fact they are wrong. If you know for a fact the answer then post it. If you don't then don't even bother to respond with the ruling, b.c it does them or nobody else any good. 't. If you''t't My point was not to try and throw you under the bus but to help you and others by my mistakes. It's a bad feeling to give someone a ruling because you think you know the rules well only to find out you were wrong. And I'm sorry to say you would be arguing with anybody, I don't know that to be a fact. I guess what I do know in that situation, according to your post, you would have at least been trying to say the second ball is the one in play and the score that counts. My appologies for being to blunt, rude, direct etc... didn't mean it that way.

in a nutshell, yes you were in the wrong. And it is very odd behavior that I have never witnessed in the thousands of rounds of golf I have played. I have been in many 2 and 3 somes when players were added and I have never seen myself or any person in my group get upset about it. I've never seen it. Your reasons as to why seem very odd to me.

This thread is a perfect example of how playing with somebody with just a little knowledge or "opinions" of the rules of golf can be not only scary but detrimental to your score. This is an old scenario and very straightforward rules situation. So please people like Saevel25, don't just make stuff up about the rules and try to pass them off as fact. It only hurts people. Before this thread came up I can just picture Saevel25's playing partner arguing with him on the course about his hole and one and he's going on and on about the 5 minute lost ball rule. (don't mean to attack you, but I get very tired of people offering their "opinions" about the tules of golf. So please for the rest of us, if you don't know the rule in question for a fact then zip it on or off of the course. P.S. if you want to get a very good understanding of the rules them study the decision book not the rules of golf book.

First off sounds like you had fun and really in the end and down the road that's all that matters. Second, this is exactly what I'm saying...you had a guy shoot one over for 3 rounds. Unless you had someone else shoot pretty damn close to that none of you hold a chance of beating this guy. Hell, 3 rounds of one over par and you would have lost by 2 shots. I would guess this guy's handicap is at least a +1 shooting scores like that. It's better than scratch that's for sure. No 3 handicap is going to beat that over 3 days ever. Well, hardly ever. One round you can do it, maybe 2, 3 is likely never. That's why match play for club champs is so much more fun. Instead of one guy having a 99.999% chance of winning, 8 out of 12 guys (at least) have a chance. At least somewhat of a chance. Now our matchplay champ is the true club champ, the stroke play champ does not really get talked about. In fact we didn't even have the stroke play championship this year. Nobody cares that one member can shoot 1 over for 3 days.

Stroke or Match play? I'm assuming from your posts that it's stroke. If a club has an obvious good, consistant low handicap golfer, they will always be hard to beat over 3 rounds of stroke play. If there are are 2 or 3 etc... who are close, they will duke it out amongst themselves. We used to only have stroke play Club Champs but the same guy won 12 years in a row. 5 years ago we switched to match play. He has won 2 out of the 5 years. Now we have both formats. Match play at least lets a lot more golfers have a legit chance of winning. One golfer who is by far better than everyone else should win every year in 3 days of stroke play. One or 2 bad holes in 54 can throw a guy right out of it in a split second. But, play well. Have fun it's just a game.

I just read this one after my post. I'm sorry Gerald but just about everything you posted here is dead wrong. I've been to many golf tournaments N-Wide and PGA on both sides of the ropes. More times than not there are not loads of people to see and find your ball. Many times you get out there and there is no gallery. No one cares to see what Ken Duke of Richard Johnson are doing besides their spouses. There are no "front caddies" or cameras. Not unless you are #1 a high ranked player, #2 friends with the Golf Ch/CBS/NBC producer, #3 leading or close to it. The rough is always longer and thicker than normal play. Tell me one course where they set up the rough to make it easier on the pros than for the regular players. I can't think of any course I have visitied and seen this. If a tour player hits into the gallery, they play it where it lies. Why would they get a nice dropping zone as you say. Do you think the courses the Nationwide guys play on are as pristine and perfect as you say. Or the Hooters guys who are also breaking 70 four out of four rounds? No way. And not every PGA course is a pristine and perfect as you want to believe with all of this new sand and everything. Hooters, N-Wide, PGA course all get set up much harder for tournament play. So, I will say it absolutely is foolish to compare amature to pros if you know what you are talking about. Like ND Fan just said above..."I just realized that many golfers have no idea just how good these guys are or how tough the courses they play are. " I too now just realized it myself.

I played at Whisper Rock in AZ. One of the coolest things is that they post all of the handicap printouts in the locker room just like any other club would. They must have at least 15+ Tour pros who belong and play there regularly. I took a good hard long look at the caps when I was there. Phil was by far the lowest handicap with a +6.3 the day I was there. The next was about a +2.9 and all of the rest were +1 point somethings to +2 point somethings. Gary McCord, I remember was the lowest pro I saw with maybe about a zero. Anyways, these are tournament winning tour pros with caps of +1.8. I will be my house, car and guitar collection on any amature with a +1.8 who wants to play one of the pros who also has a +1.8. The amature will lose every single time. The leap between pro golfers and high caliber amatures is WAY beyond handicap numbers. I play regularly with a +1 amature golfer. I've seen him shoot 65 and I've seen him shoot 79. I've never seen him shoot above 79. I also play with several 1,2 and once in a revision scratch caps and have seen them shoot 69 and have seen them shoot 89. what does all that mean. I have no idea as I type. But my point is, the pros are good. Way beyond good. Way beyond amatures. I'll take oh let's say Ted Purdy. He has played in 6 Nationwide events this year and is 197 out of 206 on the $ list. I will again bet my house, car and guitars that Ted will beat any Club Champion from any club in America 9 out of 10 times. I give the 1 out of 10 win to some of our countries extremely good amature club champions. The vast majority of amature club champs will never ever stand a chance against him. And he is bottom of the barrel Nationwide Tour.

No this is Rusty from Vacation Not quite the guy I idolized in Weird Science. Yikes!

I hear ya Zimmy. I too get it being a somewhat lower cap. But again, go to GHIN, type in his name and your state. See what he has listed for his tournament scores then compare it to his cap. See if there is an alarm. Good days happen all of the time and there is not much you can do about it. But high caps and 2+ low tournaments scores do not jive and the USGA knows it and has a formula and a fix. Of the 500+ handicaps and tournament scores I have compared, only one guy made it onto the radar. Way lower that I ever thought going into it. Most people's caps and tournament scores jive, as far as sandbagging. The vanity cap is a different story.

It's simple to fix and if it happened 2 years in a row go blame your handicap committe chairman. IF, there is indeed something that needs a fixin'. Does your club use the GHIN system? If so, give us the guys name. Let's look him up. Let's see what his handicap is and let's see what he shoots in tournaments. Easy as that. The USGA handicap book has a very simply formula to figure out if there is a problem. I was once my course's Handicap Chair and I went through every player in the field for that particular tournament. A field of 72 would take me about an hour to do. In all of the times I did it only one guy ever got on the radar using the USGA formula. One Guy! And you know what he was a sandbagger, so withing the USGA guidelines we adjusted his tournament handicap and all have been fine since.

I say I average probably 255-265 off of the tee. I'm typically one of the longer guys in my group of guys my age 35-45. My dad, who is 60, outdrives me 90% of the time and always has by about 10-20 yards. I played in a member member with my friend who is a 2 time Club Champ, 1 cap and 38 years old. We played with two friends both of whom are over 50. They both outdrove us for 2 days straight. Bottom line, age has nothing to do with distance. That's why Fred Couples can outdrive Joe Ogilvie all day long. More to it like swings and the correct equipment especially shafts.

Right you are. Well everything except a tour player giving you 6 a side and beating you most days. If a tour player only gave you 6 a side, they would beat you every day, every round for the rest of your life. Unless you are a solid scratch maybe 1 or 2 or plus, then you might have a fighting chance. A low single digit amature has zero chance of beating any pro on the Nationwide or PGA Tour besides flukes. On your home course, they'll shoot a 65 which means you have to shoot a 76 and on their course they'll shoot a 69 while you will probably shoot about a 93. Just look at how these N-Wide guys tear up the Ohio State course. It's something like 7600 yards with 13' stimp and rough as deep as your shoes and they tear it up. But it's their job, they are professionals. While we go to the office for 8 hours they go to the range for 10 hours. I guess after reading the posts, when I say "wow" regarding the N-Wide roster, I should have taken into consideration how well you know these names. To me, many of these names are household names in my house. So while many on this forum don't know a Ted Purdy or Ken Duke or Casey Whittenberg, I do and when I see them on the N-Wide tour I say wow. I know the game they have. I know how well they have done of the PGA Tour. When I see Kirk Triplett playing on the N-Wide tour I say wow. as well as a Brett Wetterich, Daniel Chopra, Jason Gore etc... Not that their games don't deserve to be on the Nationwide Tour, I'm just saying wow is all. It's like when you see a band play many times in big venues, stadiums etc.. and then down the road you see the same guys playing in bars for a $5 cover charge to 75 people you say wow. not good or bad just wow.

Yeah Casey Martin sued over the golf carts due to his legs. Or maybe one leg? I forget. Casey Wittenberg lost in the finals of the 2003 US Amature. Had a tie for 13th in the 04 Masters. Lowest amature total in 41 years etc.... Been struggling ever since, but did make it to the big tour a couple of year ago. By no means am I a fan, in fact far from it. He's a little....... But I was just using him as an example of someone playing on the PGA Tour and within a blink of an eye is paying to play on the Hooters Tour. If you ever want to get a "wow" moment, go to the Nationwide Tour website and look at the complete money list. Look at some of the names that are playing on the Nationwide Tour.

I just noticed that he seems to be playing full time on the Hooters Tour. I can understand a guy like him loses his PGA card and plays on the Nationwide but for him to not even be playing the N-Wide seems strange. (and I know even the N-Wide tour is extremely difficult to get on) Anybody know exactly what has happened to him since being on the PGA Tour in 2009?

I did not read all of the replys but the bottom line for me is that a Champioship Flight for the Club Championship should NEVER be handicapped. If yours is, then go blame your golf committee.

yeah, they have been wearing them for at least 5 years. 5 years ago a lot of younger guys were weating them now just a lot of guys in general are wearing them. I played at Whisper Rock about 3 or 4 years ago and all they had in the proshop were split hem pants. for about $200 a pop!

I don't wear regular turtlenecks or mock ones. A black dickie under a thin white sweater maybe but the others. never. Bottom line is that it's not a good look on anybody. Although Jack looked pretty good. Do I care that people wear them, no and no. Do I look to Tiger for fashion advice. No and never. Many days he is one of the worst dressed guys on tour.

That's my opinion. I am fast. No practice swings, read putts very quickly. No practice strokes. Know where to be and when to go there. Hit right when it's my turn. etc... But I realize most are not this fast and I'm totally cool with that. There is what I call a normal pace of place or a good pace as the USGA says. I'm a little faster than that. Anything slower than normal or good on a consistant basis is no good.

could not agree more. Pace of play is in the USGA rules of golf. Now if we could only get the PGA tour to issue strokes instead of fines for slow play, we'll be in business: Pace of Play Play at Good Pace and Keep Up Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow. It is a group's responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.

2 quickies I like...Johnson Wagner & Rickie Fowler. Fast and fun to watch them being fast. When Johson won at the Mayakoba last week it was amazing how fast he putted. Honestly amazing.

It's hard to watch for sure. I feel for his playing partners and the t.v. producers. It's got to be hard to put him on live t.v. because when they cut to him b/c it looks like he's about to hit, then he backs off again, does his shuffle dance and then stalks up behind the ball only to pull back and do it all over again. Those t.v. producers know the routine of those players and know exactly when to cut to them so that when they are on t.v. we see them hit their shot not dance around. It has to be tough with him. The WGC bush / desert drop was totally ridiculous.

You are right. I am neither. But I do deal with medical doctors and PHDs on a daily basis as well have 3-4 in my regular group of golfers and just because you have a degree does not mean anything to me. I happen to have my MBA, own my medical supply company and put 2 kids through college. So what, who cares. The majority of doctors I know are brilliant in many aspects of life but many I know are also quite the opposite. They may know how to perform certain aspects of their jobs but can hardly balance their checkbook or remember simple rules of golf. "OK, tell me again for the 900th time, what's the difference between a red stake and yellow?" Anyways for every one doctor who is in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies who speaks against the use of herb I can give you many more who are righteous and moral who know it's a good plant and are not afraid to say it. For every study you can provide that says it may be a little psychologically addictive for a small amount of people, I can give many more that say the opposite. As far as talking out my ass. Far from it. I am talking 100% from personal experience and having interest of this subject for the past 30+ years. Like I stated previously, I do not indulge in herb. It has been many many moons ago. But just because I don't use it anymore does not mean my brain and common sense has gone out the window. It's as simple as this. My brother in law got testicular cancer about 4 years ago. What do the doctors prescribe him? Marinol. Do you know what Marinol is? It is a man made synthetic form of marijuana. It's made in a laboratory by a pharmaceutical company. Explain that to me with any sort of God given common sense. Instead of prescribing him a natural plant that will alleviate the symptoms they want to pump his body full of man made chemicals. But thankfully there were doctors who were consulting with him who advised him that if he did not want to take the Marinol that using herb would be totally fine. It is illegal for one reason only $$$. Lobbyist, corruption, ignorance and greed. It was on the November ballot in CA to make it fully legal. One of the main opponents of it was the growers in Northern California. Why? Money. They believe it would cut into their money they make by growing it. Even those guys don't care about the God given right to use this holy herb. They only care about money. Greed and money is the evil of this world. But it will change. Every November it will change a little more and a little more until it is eventually totally legal in the United States of America. I really do not mean to start a fight here. I just get so sick of the backwards, ignorant "Reefer Madness" propoganda talk about marijuana. I only feel this way about marijuana. I do not feel the same about coke, heroine, speed etc..Pain medications have their place but not if a natural remedy is available and will work just as well if not better. I am all for freedoms when it comes to alcohol and tobacco but will say if you have ever seen a family member die from tobacco and on a breathing tube it is about the worse thing a human being can see. And I have never seen anything worse tear apart a family than alcohol. A bad alcoholic is sad, scary and dangerous. I have said all I need to say on this subject. Love II

Meenman. you have had some incredibly ignorant, baseless and quite wacky posts in this thread but this is a good one. First off, yes the odds are you have friends that smoke just about every day of their lives and you have no idea. And wow, low and behold they hold nice jobs, raise a good honest family and contribute to society. To feel that a human being should be put in jail for ingesting a plant put on earth by God is very very sad. But I assume you only mean one should be locked up in 35 U.S. states because it is legal in the other 15. Actually I don't know of any state that locks up people who get caught using herb. Jail is pretty much reserved for those who deal it in mass quantities not personal use. Even the states where it is not legal classify it as a misdemeanor . So to feel people should be locked up for using it is a very odd way of thinking and you would be in the minority. Even the politicians and lawmakers do not agree with you on that one. Thank God! The baseless argument that pot is a stepping stone to harder drugs is a long-ago dismissed theory only regurgitated by the ignorant and uniformed. If anything tobacco, alcohol, McDonalds crap burgers or caffein would be the stepping stone. The people who work hard to legalize it are not only stoners. The people who work hard to legalize it are people with a brain who see the big picture. In regards to the OP. Your bad round was caused by the game being hard and you didn't have your best day. That's it.

OK, one more quote. 4 Putt you are 100% completely wrong. It is not psychologically addictive. I have quite with zero difficulty after smoking every day for 20 years. I have had at least 50 friends who quit and not one...I repeat not one has had any difficulty in doing it. That is a line of total b.s.. As far as smuggling in pot. If one only deals in pot then they are 100% different than coke, heroine and moonshine smugglers. Those products kill people through their use. Pot does not, has not and will never kill a person. A person who deals in pot in the U.S. is only considered a crook because crooks made it illegal. Pre 1920 ish they would not have been considered a crook. Pre 1800 ish they would have been considered an upright American doing their part. In many places around the world you are not considered a crook. And last but not least a pot smoker absolutely will not do anything to get the $ to support their habit. That is pure rubbish nonsense. What they may do is clock in a little over time at the job they show up to everyday and get some extra cash.

When the put in the PGA drug tests the most moans came about because of herb. Most Pros do not like to drink due to the effects the next day so herb has always been a great alternative. Where can we read this incredibly ignorant and baseless article? nope two completely different things. absolutely no such thing as weed hangover. well see the maybe maybe exception below. and that's a very slim maybe I know a guy who won our club championship while smoking during the round ok maybe only maybe to those who rarely smoke. for all others no such thing I will stop quoting. but bottom line. herb is a gift from God. Put on this earth for the use of man as the bible says. It's a plant that grows with God's sun and water. It's as good as apples and oranges. Keep in mind it does not have to be smoked. It can be eaten, drank rubbed on in your suntan lotion.