i-Guy

I just went from KBS Tour Stiff to Project X Flighted 5.5...I felt like the KBS Tour was not quite as stiff as the DG S300 and I have read in other places that people say the Project X 5.5 is not quite as stiff as the DG S300 so I am hoping that the 5.5 matches the KBS in stiffness (feel) but with the advantage of the flighted shaft ball flight...what do you guys think? Thanks any feedback I can get as I hit my new irons today for the first time.

I agree to a large extent but having a great short game (chipping and putting) is a close second and to your point...I would not mind having 36 putts every round if I had 18 GIR's every round = "Even Par"

I thought maybe a good way to do this would be to compare stats (and I would like to add that keeping your stats is a great way to improve and you can see more clearly the areas where you need to improve)...so far for 2011 I have played 12 rounds and my stats are as follows: Avg score = 85 fairways hit: 44.6% greens in regulation: 32.9% recovery performance: 30.8% (I call this Up & down for Par) putting averages: 1.84 avg penalty strokes per round = 3.3 (mainly tee shots) So as you can see we are fairly similar off the tee (and I don't even own a driver so this is a big problem in my game)...however, the main difference is GIR and Putting avg...which according to my earlier post is what it takes to break 80...good luck.

I agree with all the short game advice you have been getting on this thread...I went from a 12 to an 8 handicap in less than a year by focusing 50% of my practice time on chipping and putting...simply because as amatuers we are not going to have the time to dial in our irons like the Pro's and we are going to miss greens... However, they say that the two most important stats to breaking 80 is GIR and putting as follows: To consistently break 80, you should average eight or more GIRs. Take a few recent scorecards, or record your next few rounds, and average your scores, then average your GIRs. Compare your results to the chart at left. I bet you're right at, or very close to, where the chart says you should be. But if you score better than your GIRs would predict-say, you hit four greens but average 83-you probably have an extraordinary short game. You need to focus on hitting more greens. If you score worse than your GIRs would predict-say, you hit seven greens but average 85-then your putting is weak, or you tend to have blowup holes, which throw off any system for predicting score: The second piece of the scroing puzzle is putting. When it comes to breaking 80, putting is less important than GIRs but much more important than everything else. After all, more than a third of all strokes are putts. Although the "eight greens break 80" rule is a good predictor, it is possible to break 80 with fewer than eight GIRs, and possible to not break 80 with more than eight. The difference in these cases usually (but not always) is putting.

One thing that is definetly clear (or unclear) about all this is that there are no hard core rules to be followed as you can track whatever you want...however you want...if it helps your game improve or not (like one poster said becuase it was fun to track stats)...at the end of the day your handciap has nothing directly to do with these stats because you do not enter them in the GHIN system and they are not a part of your handicap calculation...but it sure is interesting hearing everyone's opinion on stats...

Interesting and true to a certain extent...have you ever read "How to break 80" it talks about that the two most important stats are GIR and Putts per round...the following are a few parts from the discussion: Here's a quick way to remember the effect of GIRs on your score: "Three greens break 90, eight greens break 80, and 13 greens break 70." That prediction is fairly accurate for any single round, and within one stroke about 90 percent of the time when you take the average of four or more rounds. The second piece of the scroing puzzle is putting. When it comes to breaking 80, putting is less important than GIRs but much more important than everything else. After all, more than a third of all strokes are putts. Although the "eight greens break 80" rule is a good predictor, it is possible to break 80 with fewer than eight GIRs, and possible to not break 80 with more than eight. The difference in these cases usually (but not always) is putting. I went back and tracked my rounds under 80 for the previous year and sure enough each time I met either of these requirements...and my two rounds so far this year under 80 were as follows: GIR = 7 Putts = 30 GIR = 7 Putts = 28 So each time I met one of these requirements (close on the GIR)...I think it is just the way the math works out but by keeping up with your GIR and putting stats you may find the areas you need to work on and focus to improve??? Just my 2 cents... PS Tracking penalty strokes is a good indicator also...especially for off the tee

True..true and even with those huge greens and fariways us amatuers still suck at these stats...when I look at the PGA Tour stats and even Champions Tour stats in reference to FIR and GIR they are amazing...I am a 7.7 handicap and my avg stats are FIR = 44% and GIR = 35%...horrible

Very cool...check out some of the main parings for Thurs/Fri: Groups Thursday tee time Friday tee time Martin Kaymer, Lee Westwood, Luke Donald 12:54 p.m. (1st tee) 12:02 p.m. (10th tee) Graeme McDowell, Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson 11:51 a.m (10th tee) 12:54 p.m. (1st tee) Paul Casey, Rory McIlroy, Steve Stricker 12:02 p.m. (10th tee) 1:05 p.m. (1st tee) Matt Kuchar, Jim Furyk, Ernie Els 12:44 p.m. (1st tee) 11:51 a.m. (10th tee) Ian Poulter, Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson 11:41 a.m. (1st tee) 12:44 p.m. (10th tee) Retief Goosen, Francesco Molinari, Robert Karlsson 11:51 a.m. (1st tee) 12:54 p.m. (10th tee) Hunter Mahan, Miguel A. Jimenez, Alvaro Quiros 12:54 a.m. (10th tee) 11:51 a.m. (1st tee)

I will throw in a little different twist but it may help your decision...I hate drivers (see sig) as I hit a TEE strong 3 wood (13 deg) off the tee (avg 250 and that is not internet distance...ha! ha!) ...so when I had a gap between my 3 iron and strong 3 wood I thought about getting 4 wood...but just like you I really do not like hitting clubs that are too big for the job (might be my mental problem with drivers as I hate the 460 size)...anyway I decided to buy the TEE 2H (16 deg)...it has the same shaft as my 3 wood and it has a smaller head then most hybrids...and I LOVE this club...it was a great addition to my bag and gives me more versilitily then a 4 wood can...just my 2 cents!

I hear you...that use to be my problem and I guess in a way it still is as I do not even own a driver (see sig) because of this dilema...actually I think I have an issue with the 460 heads??? Anyway I actually won a American Amatuer Golf Tour event (they were bought by the Golf Channel Am-Tour) back in 2001 with the longest club in my bag being a 4 iron which I hit off the tee...I was a 12 handicap playing from the mens tees and I shot an 81 to win "C" flight...but that is how scared I am of a driver. However, recently my full swing game has done a 180 deg on me...I have found somehting in my swing that seems to work really well off the tee but I am struggling with consistent iron shots...I am serious (not internet distances) when I say that I am avaregaing 250 off the tee with my TEE stong 3 wood as I track every one hit in the fairway with my On Par and I have hit quite a few over 270. Also in my last few rounds I have hit 9-10 FIR. But I cannot get a 9 iron on the green... ...this is driving me crazy...well I have a lesson this weekend with a new Pro that I have decided to try and he suppsoe to be really good so I am planning to start figuring out what is going on with my iron game...Crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzy game!!!

Thanks "Old1964" for the kudos but iGuy right? Heck that hardly ever happens...well if you listen to my wife... ...LOL Anyway I feel I was right choosing the JPX 800 Pro irons for me and my game but the OP has to figure that out for themself. Because there are many reasons why people are single digit handicaps...me personally because I have a decent short game and my swing gets in the slot enough times a month (or every other month) to keep my handicap under 10...but at the end of the day I am very inconsistent when it comes to ball striking (even though I practice as much as I can) because I have a full time job...Example is that my last ten scores are as follows: 84, 79, 88, 83, 87, 89, 79, 89, 85, 86 ...needless to say my handciap is creeping up but the JPX irons went into the bag four rounds ago when I shot 79...the 89 was mainly because of putting as I had 38 putts...I average 30 putts a round so that was horrible for me. So bottom line is that the OP has to test these iron choices and not care what it looks like in his bag but how the irons he or she chosses perform out of the bag...clear as mud?

Ha! Ha! dang spellcheck...too funny...anyway "to me" it just feels like harder impact when I hit off a mat versus the ground.

+1...I also cannot hit off a rubber tee on an inside simulator...somehting about it??? One more thing is that I do not think it is real good on your body or clubs to hit off matts...there is not much cushion other then the matt and then there is usually concrete underneath...nothing like hitting into the ground where a club is designed to dig through...not bounce off like a matt...I am actually considering not hitting off them anymore as my left shoulder will hurt the next day after doing so (inside or outside matt)

I would do yourself a favor and hit the JPX 800 PRO irons at that same time...I am a 7.7 handicap and consistent ball striking is my constant challenge and for me I found the JPX 800 PRO iron a great mix of Mizuno buttery feel and but with forgiveness on those days when I am struggling...believe me I could swing the MP 58 irons (as many of my friends tried to talk me into them) but I could not argue with results...how I tested irons (MP58, AP2_710 & JPX 800 Pro) was as follows as I think this process helps get you in the right sticks: Get the clubs set up to as close as possible to your specs...obviously Hit on mulitple days (do not hit only one day because if your swing is in the slot that day you might as well buy the MP 68 irons because when a single digit is swinging well they can hit pretty much any iron)...remember this is a game of managing your misses... Anyway more specifically I would hit them for two days in a row...then I would sit out a day...then go back and hit them for two more days...what I found was that one of those days my swing was not in the slot and the true forgiveness showed up in distance control (which to me is the most important thing as it relates to forgiveness)...meaning if you come from the inside...get stuck...and don't get out of the way so you can release your hands you are going to hit a shank "no matter which club you have in your hand"...that is not what I am talking about...what I am talking about is when you know you did not put a good move on it and you still had enough to get on the green...that is were scoring is important and where the right iron can make a real difference. PS Charles Howell III tested the entire Mizuno line upon signing with Mizuno and he has the JPX 800 pro in his bag...maybe for the same reason I do???

Sound like it but I am wondering how well this is going to hold up...let us know how it does over say a month or so of normal use...thanks again and very nice sticks.

I just had to quote the OP to see those fine looking wedges again...dang I wish we lived closer I would pay you to do mine the same way...they look friggin SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!

Interesting...my understanding is that the swing weight will change 2 swing weights (generally speaking) with each 1/2 inch...so when you went from 45.5 - 44 your swing weight should have gone from D4 to C8...however, you are saying that by putting on a lighter grip (25 grams) your swing weight actually went up to D6...hmmm...I would have thought the grip would have had only one or two swing weight affect on the situation but it changed it 8 swing weights...WOW!

I was just wondering if I read that right... Oh by the way my current driver length is 43 inch...because my driver is back in the closet and I am playing my strong 3 wood off the tee again...I am not sure if it is the length or just the large head of drivers that throws my swing off but I just cannot seem to hit them as well as I should...I hit my strong 3 wood just as far...and a lot more consistently in the fairway.

Quote: Originally Posted by Shanks A Million Wait I am confused by this post...maybe I am not reading it corretly but didn't you say "If someone tells you that a longer driver will give you more distance, ignore anything else they may say, they have lost credibility." and then right after that you made the comment as follows "You can add 4" of shaft to your driver, and you will get about 7 extra yards." ...don't those two statements contradict each other...because in fact it is true that a longer shaft will get you more distance...period...now I think what you were getting at was that even though that is true it does not always work out that way becuase it is harder to square up a longer shaft so a higher handicapper would probably be better off swinging a shorter shaft and trying to hit the middle of the clubface...am I in the ball park?

First I would like to say to the OP that this is a very personal issue and as you probably are already aware you need to go hit all these clubs and find out for yourself which one works for you both from a visual and performance standpoint. Now with that said I will address the clubs ypou mentioned and maybe suggest one more to consider as follows: 1) Mizuno MX 200 - I have never gamed these but I do not like the look of these visually (you know what I mean...when I set it down do I immediately feel like I can hit it)...NO...again this is a personal visual tyhing. 2) Cleveland CG7 Black Pearl - Last fall when considering changing irons I hit these for a while at the range (along with other irons) and they felt clicky to me...they just did not seem as solid as other clubs I was trying at the time...again this could be a personal feel thing? 3) TM R9 - I have owned these clubs twice...yes you read that correctly "twice" in that in the fall of 2009 I was playing Srixon i-701 tours and bascially these are blades with an apperance of a cavity back and since ball striking is the worst part of my game I decided to give some GI irons a try and man when I hit these at the golf shop and on the range I was killing them...anyway they did not stay in the bag. I had shoulder surgery in Jan 2010 and for some reson (bored during long recovery) decided to change my entire bag. Anyway my change did not work so I went back to the R9's AGAIN! I was playing pretty well with them and then my coach had me hit these Cleveland CG1's (blades) and I loved them (honeymoon) and so I switched again...dang it Since then I have switched coaches as this guy was always trying to get me to play blades or Player irons (maybe because I am an 8 handicap and he thinks I should be playing that type of club?) but ball striking is the worst part of my game meaning if I hit the ball well or even fairly decent during a round I break 80...but if not I struggle to break 90...weird. So I have finally decided I am a GI type of guy and decided to look at all the GI clubs available on the market and did some serious testing. Examples of clubs tested: Titleist AP1, TM R9, G15, Adams CB2, Diablo Edge, etc... I went with the Titleist AP1 (upgraded with the KBS Tour stiff shafts)

yeah I wonderd about that when I saw she was playing 7,000 yards...even driving the ball 276 she will be hitting at least two more clubs into each green and the par three's on that long of a golf course are going to be loooooooong. When she hits it 276 on the LPGA she is proabably hitting short to medium irons into greens on a regular basis and the par 3's are not as long...good for her trying it though and now when she plays the LPGA it will seem like a business executive course...oh maybe I should not have said that

Grips are personal for a lot of reasons...feeling in your hand, climate where you play, etc...but I have recently went to the new Black Widow grips (made by Softspikes) see at http://www.bwgrips.com/cms/index.php?s=edge I actually like the ones called the "Edge"...they just feel good in my hands and they are only $3.99 each at my local golf store...sweet!

Oh yeah it is #7...dang it has a been a long time since I played there...I forgot about #4 (par 3) when I was counting earlier. So then on my earlier post I meant #5 is a a tough hole not #4..isn't #5 the #1 handicap hole?

Oh you will enjoy RH no matter which tee box you play from...I only mentioned #6 from the tips becuase it is literally all carry over water (par 3) from the tips...from the white there is land between you and the hole...

Rebel_Golfer you will enjoy RH...if I remember correctly the tough holes are #4 and I always thought #9 was a good hole...if you play the tips then #6 will be a challenege...enjoy!!!