jc21539

If I understand correctly, what's being said is that Tiger sets up with the clubface at about 40 degrees (48 degrees minus the 8 degrees forward lean) and strikes down at about 8 degrees. His ball flies up at about 34 degrees. The overall angle between the clubface and the angle of approach is 40 degrees up minus 8 degrees down, which equals a net sum of 48 degrees. 34/48=0.71 5/7=0.71 So the angle the ball flies up at is exactly 5/7 of the overall angle between the clubface direction and the swing path. I honestly couldn't have made this up if I wanted to, nor would I have any reason to. The laws of motion don't change with magnitude. I'm sorry, I don't think I can say this any more clearly. I never said that the ball flies off the clubface at twice the speed of the clubhead. This is being quoted from one website that I used out of many different resources, a website that does happen to be about physics and not about golf. I wouldn't expect them to know everything about the elasticity of clubheads and golf balls. They were correct to say that the ball would fly off the face at a greater speed than the clubhead, and that the compression of the ball on the clubface would reduce the speed. I hope everyone is aware that the speed of the ball off the clubface is greater than the speed the clubhead is traveling. Just take a putter, and swipe at a golf ball at an extreme out-to-in or in-to out path, but keep the clubface pointing straight. See whether the ball goes closer to the clubface direction or the swing path direction. “Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.” -Benjamin Franklin

If the logic that the clubhead path is more influential in determining the initial direction of the ball flight than the clubface is, then this logic must also hold true for the vertical flight as well. That would mean that if you hit the ball at the exact bottom of your swing arc with a wedge, the ball would initially start out on the direction of the swing path, which would be parallel to the ground, and only after traveling in the "air" for a while would it start to move up, even though it would have to start out as a grounder. In reality, we are usually hitting down on the ball, so the ball has to start downwards, the same direction the clubhead is traveling...right? If you believe that this image holds true, then it must work the same way for the horizontal vector. Angles don't care whether they are facing up or down or right or left. There is no IF about it. The website that you can find this information on is http://www.tutelman.com/golf/design/...lubmakeronline . But with a basic understanding of physics and some common sense, you can tell that this will hold true for the horizontal vector just as it does for the vertical vector. If anyone can prove otherwise, besides saying that some golfers have agreed on it, please explain in scientific detail. I am open to any relevant arguments, as long as they have some basis in reality and not just intuition or personal perception. I have read the previous threads about this on this forum. They are wrong. The information was probably taken out of a magazine. That's why I had to start a new one.

I was browsing the internet the other day, and I came across an article that stopped me in my tracks. The article was written by David DeNunzio, managing editor of the instruction section for Golf Magazine. What really bugs me about this article is that the information in it is simply wrong. I am referring to the section where he describes what makes a ball slice. Unfortunitely, it appears that Mr. DeNunzio was just regurgitating common knowledge about the golf swing, and was not really interested in finding out the facts. The article is found here at http://www.golf.com . If the three diagrams where he explains the three different types of slices are true, then golf is apparently the only thing in the known universe that is able to defy the laws of physics. If the swing path is straight down the target line, and the clubface is open, the ball will NOT start out even remotely straight. The ball will start out, at the very least (according to the laws of physics), within 5/7 of the angle that the clubface is pointing, in relation to the angle between the clubface direction and the swing path direction. Here is a graphic representation of what I just described: I can't help but wonder, if this guy is the managing editor of the instruction section for a magazine as widely published as Golf Magazine, what about the rest of the stuff that these guys spit out week after week?

I am not suggesting lead tape as a theory... I have done it myself. It doesn't take that much lead tape. When you apply the tape to the club head, it has a much more profound effect than if you apply it throughout the shaft, like the momentus does. In addition, it allows you to actually feel where the club head is. Any pro shop can change out a grip for you for $10. The training grip is about the same, and is not even necessary. Some versions of the momentus don't even come with one. So it's not really all that difficult, and most importantly, it doesn't cost $100. Maybe that's not a lot of money to some people, but if I can avoid it with something that is reasonably comparable and only costs $23, then I'm going to do it. It only has to be 1/4 as effective to be worth the money. Having used both, I can say that it absolutely is. If you don't want to go through the hassle of lead tape, then a weighted club ring works nicely as well (by the way, it's against the rules of golf to use one while you are actually playing).

Folks, it's called lead tape and it costs $3. Just to clarify a bit, I do own a momentus myself. I also own an old wooden fairway wood with lead tape and a grip trainer on it. They do the same thing. Besides just the added weight (ignore the "perimeter weighting" b/s), it is actually the drill that is helping your swing plane and tempo. You can do the "momentus" drill with any club in your bag, including one that you stick $3 lead tape on.

Any swing in the middle of January is nice to me. Your swing looks like it can hit good shots to me, which isn't surprising. If there's one thing I could pick out (I'm fishing for it a bit), it would be that it looks like your sliding a bit on the downswing. The best part about your swing is how athletic your setup is. It looks like all you have to do from there is push a button. I am a little confused though, why are you doubting your swing anyway? For everyone else, I don't think the 0.0 represents a 0 handicap - it stands for "professional," i.e. no handicap. He's a teaching professional.

I'd have to say that getting rid of the stymie completely eliminated a huge competitive aspect of the game. Contrary to popular belief, when you are playing competitive golf, you are not in control of your fate. Other golfers can beat you by shooting a lower score than you, and you can't control what they shoot. But why not??? It's competition, after all.

I like to start the club as close as possible to where I would like to make contact with the ball. That means on the ground, with the ball dead center in the middle of the club face. I think it gives my eyes a little assistance in finding the ball again.

It turns out I was correct...it was interesting to research! But, I did learn a bit more about the physics behind ball flight. I don't understand the equations very well, but this is what I have come to learn: 1. Clubface has more effect on the starting direction of the ball than swing path, although swing path does (in theory, it is technically "can" but in practice, "does") have an effect. 2. In a frictionless collision, the ball would start out directly down the path perpendicular the clubface. 3. The faster your clubhead speed, the more effect swing path has on the initial direction. This is generally where I am basing my information from http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=16863 . If you take the paragraph where he talks about the angles between c, p, b, and alpha, and draw yourself a diagram, it helps greatly in understanding the 5/7 rule.

No, actually, what I am talking about is physics. You are correct in that if you come over the top, you are likely to have an open clubface. But when we say open, we mean open in relation to the swing path. So if the clubface is square to the target line, and your swing is outside to in, then your clubface is open in relation to your swing path. But an outside to in path does not create a slice on its own. If you are out to in and the clubface is open in relation to the path, then that is a pull slice. If you come over the top with a dead shut clubface, you won't be seeing any slices. You'll be seeing pull hooks instead (which are fairly common as well). If you are inside to out and have an open clubface in relation to your path (which means really open in relation to your target) then you will hit a huge push slice, meaning it starts right and goes further right. To actually start the ball right of your target (while hitting the ball somewhere on the actual clubface), your swing must be inside out. Atleast, that is my understanding of the physics based on what I've read. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it is actually a combination of swing path and clubface that determines where the ball starts out, but I don't really know for sure. I am no physicist, but it would be interesting to research. Anyhow, you can get a pretty good sense of what you are doing using the basic rule.

There is a big difference between a slice and a push. A push is caused by an inside to out swing path. A slice is caused by an open clubface in relation to your swing path. Figuring out whether you are slicing, pushing, or both is not always an easy task, especially if you are on the severe end of the spectrum. A shot that appears to be a push could really just be an extremely severe slice. In addition, hitting the ball off the extreme end of the toe or off the hozzle can make it virtually impossible to tell what is going on from ball flight alone. Grip, alignment, and posture are three things that make it easier for golfers to swing down the target line with a square clubhead. But it is ultimately the golfer's intentions that determine where the ball goes. Determine what areas of your setup you feel least comfortable with. If it's your grip, try switching to a ten-fingered grip for a while, and remember that human beings grip things with their fingers. If it is alignment, put some clubs down to line up your body parallel to the target line. For your posture, focus on making the most powerful and balanced swing you can, and your posture will react naturally. The key here is to keep it simple. If you don't already, try picking out an intermediate target about a foot in front of the ball on your target line. I think this is one of the best ways to keep your mind focused on the target line, because you can actually see it. When you swing, forget about anything else you've learned besides swinging the club down the target line. And remember, nothing happens overnight. Not even becoming millionares or fixing your slice. Hope this helps.

I second that... spend more time on the putting green.

You know, I've never been a big fan of the line on the swing. I always figured that if I couldn't do it every time on every shot, then I better learn how to do it without it. Last time I played, however, I decided to give it a shot. Low and behold, I did actually putt slightly better than normal. I found the greatest improvement to be on putts within five feet. I guess the theory of maximizing your advantage whenever possible also works in this case.

I hate golfless winters in New England. One of these days, I'm going to shoot myself .

I don't exactly remember where I read this - it may have been Ben Hogan's book or in one of Bob Rotella's books, but I really don't remember - but it sticks out in my mind none the less. Whoever the teacher was, he had a student that was having a lot of trouble making solid contact. Do you know what the teacher said to the student? He said, "Go home, and don't come back until you can hit the ball. Until you can make contact with the ball every time, I can't help you." Sure enough, the student came back. Your swing is bottoming out at different places because your mind is so cluttered with swing thoughts that you are forgetting your basic objective: hit ball at target.