limoric

forgot to mention...as for the missing clubs, you"ll be stepping back 2 so his set will stop at 5 iron. He really doesn't need the 4 or 3, but you could buy him a hybrid to fill the gap. Just buy a mens hybrid with senior shaft and cut down. I did this for my son with an old Taylormade dual 4 hybrid (regular shaft); within a year he was hitting high 170-180 yard shots with it. Buy the Precision's, add a hybrid and a cleveland Junior SW and he'll have a great set, all for under 200 bucks... The Victory Reds are nice too, but looks like they are $399, by the time you add a Hybrid, you're in for $350-$400. The Precision's are made with the same 17-4 steel and would probably cost $150 after you have them professionally altered, less if you can save the grips. Because he'll choke down a little, the grips will actually play smaller (as they taper).

No, you want to step them back, 4 iron to 6 iron, this will reduce the flex (your not doing it to adjust weight). Once they are stepped back, you cut them 1/2 inch below standard mens length. (because you are stepping them back, they will already be longer, so that's what I meant by cutting them down an inch, just do some measuring before (some five irons jump 1/2 inch whereas the 6 through PW progress by 1/4 inch). By stepping back 2 clubs, you are going to reduce the flex by about 2/3rd's of a flex point, so slightly stiffer than womans. By cutting them down 1/2 inch, you will also reduce the swing weight, so they will feel lighter, but they will not have the whippy characteristics of a womans graphite shaft; the clubs will play more accurate. All that you are doing by stepping back and cutting down is producing more flex, a bit less swing weight and a length that will fit your son. He will most likely have to choke down 1/2 inch to an inch, but this is perfect, he'll have a set he can grow into. Just use some tape to measure the lie angle; this will determine where he grips, then remeasure as he grows. By putting my son into a steel shaft which was a bit more stiff than womans graphite and a bit heavier, he was able to produce better tempo as he learned the proper swing. 3 years later he's gone from driving the ball 150 yard to 225-250 (he's now 15); he hits a wedge 100 yards and sticks the green. Buy the precision II's for $49, any of the Canadians on the board who have been around for a while can tell you they make a very quality product, like I said, the shafts alone are $200 retail. 17-4 steel is 17-4 steel, many of the top manufactures still use it. Cosmo golf had been around 20 plus years, their iron head will be very well balanced. This particular set is just like the Ping i5's but the longer irons progress into more of a G5 profile (wider sole), mid to short irons will suit any intermediate player...

And he'll do it 2 or 3 more times before I get one...LOL. I played mens league with a 30 handicap that even sliced a wedge 50 yards off line; I was there to witness his hole in one; the ball landed on the fringe of the green spun hard right and in the hole...it was his 3rd hole in one, 2nd of that year...too funny...

Just noticed they still have these clubs for sale. http://www.rockbottomgolf.com/cosmo-...et-steel.html# $49 The clubs look like a Ping i5/i10/i15 knockoff and are made of 17-4 SS. The Rifle Precision Steel shaft alone are worth near $200 retail. Cosmo golf was a components company that used to supply Golf Town (same as Golf Galaxy) and a lot of Pro shops with full sets and components. My first set 9 years ago was as set of Precision II's with Dynamic Gold shafts, they were great clubs. Cosmo Golf made a quality product. They are no longer in business, folded about 2 years ago... Step these shafts back, they would be the perfect set for your son, mid-size head with minimal offset...

I drop F-bombs regularly and especially among business associates (you would be amazed at the language in executive meetings, especially among Lawyers), but public is a different story. Swearing is meant as an exclamation point to people you know in a familiar environment...you would never do it outside of this situation; what's the point...the people around you have no idea why you're doing it other than to be an a$$. You did the right thing, I would not have even given them a warning, I would have had their a$$es thrown out immediately, they should have known better (I also have 2 young daughters)...

My son started when he was 13 (same hight as the average 12 yr old). I pulled the shafts (Dynamic Gold regular) from a fairly new set of Adams Idea A1 Pros (very nice set that graduates from muscle back short irons to hollow back mid to long irons). I stepped the shafts back (so 4 iron shaft into the 6 iron and so on) and cut the shafts down 1/2 inch. The shafts played a bit stiffer than womans. I re-gripped with a junior/womans grip. The set was perfect for him and he loved them for 2 years. He started playing the clubs choking down a little and adjusted his grip as he grew. He's 15 now and I just put him into my old CG2's (project X 5.0, cut down 1/4 inch)... I still have the clubs and they are in really great shap...let me know if you're interested...(asuming you don't go for new) If you go for new, I would pick up a set at rock bottom golf and do what I did. They have the Nickent 3DX irons on for $150 (regular $500 when they came out), pull the shafts out, step them back twice and cut them down 1/2 inch under standard (remember, you'll be taking about an inch off because you're stepping back). You can buy grips on ebay for $2 each. All total with some labor cost (if you don't do it yourself), $200-$225.

I agree 90%, but shooting par consistently does not make you scratch, it is your best 10 of 20 rounds and consistent with the course rating. A player might shoot 4 over on a course with 145 slope rating; this would not bring their index above zero, even if they did it 3 or 4 times. Scratch means you have an index of zero and can play to your potential often, while under pressure and on any course. If the average PGA touring pro played Ko'olau (Oahu Hawaii), they would not break par their first time. 7,300 yards, 152 slope rating...your really good scratch player would have a very difficult time...

Aim right with a draw bias club head and the ball will most likely draw, assuming your swing mostly on plane. I bought a Callaway I-mix FT-i draw a few months ago and wow, I can hit big sweeping draws, I could not do this with a neutral driver before, definitely not with a Tour setup. It's now almost impossible for me to hit a big fade with this club, but I could with my Hibore Tour (1-2* open). I few years ago I couldn't play a draw to save my life, natural shot was a big fade; I tried the FT-i in 2006 and was completely amazed at how the ball started to fade but then straightened out midway thought the ball flight...very, very cool. Now that I have the I-mix set up, I can adjust my club for the particular course I'm playing...It will have a big impact on my game going into next year. Look at guys like Kenny Perry, he has great difficulty hitting a fade...great technology for the guy who can use it...

I agree, I think it's a real rarity. Some people who consider themselves scratch after one year might be playing a home course with 115 slope rating or less, play a much more difficult course and perhaps they shoot in the 80's or even 90's. You are not really scratch until you have an index based on playing multiple challenging courses. My index would suggest a handicap anywhere from 5-10 depending on the slope rating of the course I play... Some guys get to know their home course so well that their index is extremely generous...

I believe Babe Zaharias did; she won her first tournament in the year she started playing...

I'm sure there are courses in Ireland that have very firm greens, no way a Top-Flite XL is going to hold the green; especially if you play a low approach shot. I've played shots that bounced 10 feet before they check up and spin back; No way a cheap 2 piece ball can do this. Perhaps a Pro might have the talent to spin a cheap ball, but they never would... If cost is the issue, then of course, play the cheap ball. But I'm pretty sure we've already determined that the Gammer fits this bill??? Whether you're just having fun or not...

Not all high handicap players have problem with side spin, some are just terrible chippers and putters. Many would see lower scores if their approach shots held the green. I played the Pro V1 when I was a 25 handicap and I did try some more forgiving balls, but they only worked the day I used them, they did not make me a better player. Just like equipment, if you are playing to compensate your flaws, you will never truly get better. If you use conventional equipment and ball, you will get plenty of feedback (good and bad), which is something the aspiring good golfer can build on. This does not mean one has to play Pro V1, there are a lot of performance balls on the market. Top-Flite XL is not going to cut it for most...but certainly it's a fine ball for the weekend hacker. Of course if a person feels their skill will never improve and they are just playing for fun and exercise, then being fit to the right ball for their game matters.

Good review, it's about how I feel. Spin on approach is just a little less and pitch and check is less dramatic, but this is the same with the Pro V1x. I kinda feel like the ball is a hybrid of several 3 piece balls...only it's the most durable of them all. I've been taking full wedge shot with my MD groves the ball holds up for a full round. I would play 2 or 3 balls from the other manufacturers...

Box of Gamer V2's, glove. It'll be interesting to see how the retail golf stores do over the next 5-10 years. I purchased my x-forged irons at Rockbottom for $500, at the time I would have paid close to $1,200 with tax...

This is one of the few post a agree with. Get fit for the proper shaft, it is the engine of your club and your grip is your only connection with the club. Do not go for advanced technology and forgiveness, it will teach you nothing about the swing, if your fingers do not vibrate on bad shots, you'll have no feedback to improve on. If your current iron shaft is not right for you, you'll be getting new used irons (replacing shafts does not make economical sense). Once you know what shaft you should be playing, search for a clean mid-size muscle back iron (with proper lie angle), something like Cleveland CG2, most every manufacturer has an iron in this genre. Get a used driver with the right shaft, again, don't go for the most advanced technology, buy something clean. You can buy the I-mix drivers pretty cheap on ebay, with it, you'll have the ability to switch shafts as you improve. Newer used wedges are key, you can get mint wedges on ebay. x-forged, spin milled, cg12... Keep it simple and clean. Once you start to get better and understand why the equipment is not working, you can make adjustments, but it will rarely have anything to do with the head of the club. Buy up all the 6-iron demo clubs you can on ebay, I've picked some up for $5-$10. Even though you will be fit, it will be on a square mat with perfect conditions; not the same as the course, plus your swing will change regularly...you will need to tinker for the next few years, buy up a bunch of 6-irons with different shafts... 5 years ago I was a 25 handicap beginner with some ability. Since then, I've been through 5 sets of irons, 7 shafts, 5 drivers and too many wedges to count. Most everything bought on Ebay. I now have the proper flex for a grooved swing; proper kickpoint and proper swing weight, but most importantly, I know why. I bought my first new set of Irons this year and will likely play them for the next 5 years...

Give us your feedback...it's a hot topic right now...

Anyone with an athletic background from youth with the right coach and dedication can play on some tour (maybe not PGA). I played hockey and baseball as a kid. got serious about golf 5 years ago, went from breaking 100 to playing in the 70's. I only play once per week. Because I had some athletic success as a youth, I understand what it takes to reach a specific goal, learn a skill. No doubt in my mind that a person could play the mini tours as a pro and even grace the higher levels with enough practice, the right coach and a lot of money. It's simply not practical for any single digit handicapper to spend 30-50K per year to realize his/her dream. In my case I have a wife and 4 kids, they cost me 100k a year... Unless a person with no athletic background is athletically predisposed and understands the physics behind the swing...now way in hell...

The Gamer is not a mid-level ball, it is a premium ball with a value price point. I've been playing the ball for 3 weeks and can say it gives me as much confidence as a Pro V, Tour-i or B330. It just spins a little less than the Pro V, so the ball backs up a foot instead of 2-3 feet. It spins like a V1x, but is a bit softer feel. You will absolutely score better with a 3 piece ball, If I were to play a cheap wilson ultra, I would add at least 5 strokes and as many as 10, getting up and down would be really hard with a ball that does not hold the green (unless I'm playing a bump and run game...but why?)...

You can't go wrong with Pro V, but the Gamer is a real good competitor. I personally would play the Pro V just because of confidence in the ball, but the Gamer is really intriguing me... For me, it's really winter...so I'm happy to buy the gamer at Golf Town for $15...

You seriously don't believe that...

I'm a premium 3-4 piece ball snob, I keep going back to pro v1 as i do think it's the best ball. I've been playing the V2 for 3 weeks now, I'm really blown away... I'm in no rush to switch back. I never did like the Nike's...in your case, I'd buy both and rotate...see how they compare. If the price of the Pro v and V2 was the same, I'd clearly play the Pro v; it's just been that consistant for me...

I cannot believe the positive feedback for Five Guys, they opened one this summer in West Vancouver and I have to say their burgers suck. For $10, I would expect to see a guy (or five), forming patties with his palms. I can get a Five Guys frozen patty at Costco. The best burger I've ever had in my life was in a bar in Everette, WA called Baxter's, we showed up there by chance looking for a UFC bar while shopping south of the border; burger and fries for something like $6, I would have paid $20. I looked at the In-N-Out website and it looks like they recently opened one in Edmonton, AB (my old home-town), I'll be there in 2 weeks, I look forward to tying it out... Quiznos is pretty damn good...

It just looks like you're laying off a bit, try finishing with more weight on your left side...your stance is a bit narrow...

I've read a lot about this. Not only does it get to 40's and 50's where I play, the ground becomes very soft, so little to no roll. My understanding is that most balls reach their peak distance at around 80 degrees, I've read that you should loose a yard off the drive for every degree the temp drops. Divide the yardage loss due to temp into your driver carry distance and you'll have a percentage to apply to the rest of your clubs...seems to work for me. I've been heating up my balls to 85 and alternating every shot (3 balls in play and 2 in my pocket at all times). I've noticed very little carry distance lost. Hit my 7 iron 165 yards on hole 7 a few days ago (50 degrees), which is about right. Yes, it's against the rules, but with lift, clean and place in effect for every shot and the fact that it's winter...who cares...it's practice season...

Was slicing my Hibore XL tour (9.5 2* open) stiff shaft, I play a draw through all my irons. I switched to a Callaway FT-i 10* draw Grafalloy Epic stiff. My miss is now a hook. I've gone back to the Hibore and I'm hitting it dead straight with a slight pull or push; I can play a slight draw or fade; still, I have a hard time setting up over the ball with this club (I used to love it), I no longer like the ball flight. What I learned from this experiment is that I need a shaft with a mid-low kick bias with slightly more loft (10*), with a head that feels comfortable. I have the i-mix, so I can play around with it; next head will be neutral and I already have a collection of shafts... I think it's your set up, but perhaps playing around with the club will help.