smith5606

Is it possible that club manufacturers put significant pressure on the non-elite pros to use the equipment that they (the manufacturers) wish to promote? In my view, this would be the equipment with the highest margins - the game improvement irons. I would also speculate that young players, even touring pros, would prefer the type of equipment they grew up hitting - again predominately game improvement irons. The question isn't what equipment is most popular, easiest to hit, or any of the other points that could be made in favor of GIs and the other products of the technologically driven golf industry. The real issue is, in my view, what is in the long term best interests of the game; should the game be the product of the arrow or the archer? I fear goflfers are becoming obsessed with idea that there is a box, somewhere, that we can buy, if we spend enough, that will provide what we are not willing to work for. I wonder, if there had been paint-by-the-numbers or Microsoft Paint during the Renaissance, how would da Vinci have chosen to paint the Mona Lisa? Would we care?

I feel the need to rant for a minute so feel free to ignore this post if you wish. Threads about the relative merits of blades vs. cavity backs and equipment in general seem to generate more posts that almost any other topic on this and other golf forums. This may well be because an increasingly large segment of the golf community has come to equate golf with hardware - dangerously so, in my opinion. A golfer's ability to score, to play successfully, and to enjoy and foster the game should never be a function of his or her equipment. This seems to be an increasingly hard concept to sell however. Cavity-backed "game improvement clubs" and other "revolutionary innovations in clubmaking technology" have made equipment increasingly expensive and recreated unrealistic expectations in the minds of a gullible population. If you doubt this, compare the cost of the top-of-the-line GI irons to the cost of the very best forged blades. Forged blades are less expensive but of no less quality, club for club, than their GI competition. What explains the incredible differences in price? I believe that it is because forged blades cannot offer anything except quality, workmanship, and the opportunity to work harder at the game. These components don't seem to carry much of a premium, however. I believe that the difference is, in fact, the price many of us will gladly pay for the ultimate golfer's dream - the promise of immediate gratification and lower scores without concomitant skill or committment. All of this might be acceptable I suppose if the dream translated into reality - either quantitatively or qualitatively. I haven't seen any evidence to convince me that either is the case. Quantitatively, I have been around golf long enough to remember wonderful golf being played with equipment that most of us would laugh at. Admittedly that equipment was wielded by very skilled golfers. For instance, I have see replicas of Bobby Jones' clubs. His clubs were barely more than glorified dowel rods but in his wonderful hands, they sang. I have read that he was even able to hit an occasional 300 yard drive with a persimmon headed driver. Imagine, no graphite shaft or titatium head. Likewise, Gene Sarazins' famous "shot heard round the world" in the 1935 Master's tournament was a 235 yard 4 wood. Not bad even by contemporary standards. Qualitatively, we inherited our game from people despirately committed to playing golf but without benefit of our modern, miracle technologies to aid them. I suspect that because of their equipment limitations, they hit their share of clunkers, a chili-dip or two, and a shank into the woods every once and awhile. But these golfers loved the game so much they forged ahead, building a wonderful sport inspite of the dreadful limitations of their equipment. Consider what they accomplished. They created wonderful courses, tournaments, and traditions that withstood wars, depressions, and even Democratic administrations. Seems that being skilled and committed may have something to be said for it. Many people who have posted on this topic have said (paraphrasing Lee Trevino) "it's the archer not the arrow". For my part, I gladly admit that I have plenty of arrows. I know I would be a better "archer" by practicing with the equipment I have rather than worrying about the equipment I wish I had. This "archer" needs to build a repeatable swing not an encyclopaedic knowledge of shaft frequencies, MOI's, and whatever technical nonsense that comes along next. They won't make me a better golfer or a more faithful custodian of our golfing heritage. This archer needs to work more diligently to make sure that I have done everything in my power to leave golf in better shape than I found it. This "archer" should nuture a climate of good sportsmanship, respect and maintain the traditions of golf, and work to increase the accessability of the sport to all. In 50 years no one will care what equipment I play. Future golfers will hold me accountable though for helping keep the sport alive. If I put half of the money and energy I expend chasing the ephemeral promises of excellence through technology, into supporting and volunteering with youth golf and other organizations that promote and nurture the sport, I would do just that. It seems a much better use of my limited resources.

Two quotes come to mind that might help explain why many of us continue to hit blades while the rest of the world seems to have gone in a different direction. Pilots say about an airplane - if it looks right, it flies right. Blades look right. Someone (I wish I knew who. If you know, please let me know.) said about a well struck shot hit with a forged blade - the feeling travels from the club face, up the shaft, and into your soul. For me, it's true. Do what you wish but as for me, I'll hit blades as long as I am able.

Only used a professional caddy once - at Bandon Dunes. Can't wait to get back and do it again. One of the greatest golf experiences of my life. You must try it at least once.

Back home they say - new hat, no cattle.

Since when did logic have anything to do with being a "gear"aholic?

Golfer: Do you think I'm standing too close to the ball? Caddie: Only after you hit it, sir. Golfer: What club do you recommend? Caddie: Canadian, sir.

You think you have problems. TGW's corporate store is right down the street. They have stuff even I haven't thought about. I think I'm going to take up rodeo.

How could I not weigh in on this topic. I have been ranting about the negative effects that commercialism has had on our game for some time now. It is sad to see what we collectively have been willing to do to chase a better golf score - as long as it involves spending money instead of spending time and effort. As I have said in other threads, I want to get off the merry-go-round of technological solutions and get back to working on the intangibles: swing, technique, touch, and judgment. With that said, I have to confess that I did make a new acquisition yesterday. My wife "bought" my Christmas present for me - a new Louisville Tiger Woods persimmon headed driver. What a hypocrite I am, I guess. I want to go back to the basics and I have found out that I have to buy them to go back to them. That means that this year I replaced by perfectly good Ping Eye+ blades with Titleist ZM (back to forged blades) and am now beginning to replace my "woods" with woods. The good news is I have decided to quit spending money on technology. Now I am spending money on anti-technology. It's a sickness I know. If I can just get a "new" Louisville 3 wood maybe I'll be cured. Right after I try out the Cleveland 42* Niblick. And I really need a better carry bag. And I hear that ProV1's are on sale. Going retro is going to bankrupt me. Maybe I ought to take up birdwatching.

Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread but I am wondering if anyone has tested (or bought) this club in the last few months? What do you use it for? What did it replace in your bag? Please don't laugh at this thread. I am as much a traditionalist as anyone but I am intrigued by this club. I am rationalizing my interest, I know, by thinking that at least this modern "niblick" is consistent with the historical niblick - a more or less 9-iron used for approach shots. Would someone please satisfy my curiousity so I don't have to go into my golf shop and ask to see you one. I'm sure I would be roundly abused by the locals and my ego is much too fragile to withstand that.

It's a shame that C*** like this refuses to die. Unfortunately, like other urban legends, it refuses to go away inspite of a mountain of evidence to the contrary. While you have to be careful in attributing too much veracity to Wikipedia, in this case it is pretty accurate. I would direct your attention to the following Wikipedia entry about the 16th Amendment and other case law regarding the income tax. Make no mistake, there is no magic way to avoid the income tax. If you try, you are subject to the full weight of law. You can go to jail, you can be fined, and your life can be radically and negatively affected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen...s_Constitution

For whatever its worth, I checked the price of ProV1's - they are indeed $29.95 +shipping (around $4.00 as I recall). I checked other prices, however, and didn't see anything else remarkable. I wonder if this is a part of a general price reduction by Titleist due to their recent legal unpleasantness? I checked TGW and it seems that there has been some price reduction there also - mid $30's. I still like Gamers for a whole lot less - for now at least.

Unfortunately, there is no shortage of idiots in the world of golf. The actions of a few misdirected fools shouldn't be used to condemn the vast majority of trolley users and walkers. Neither should we walkers uniformly condemn those who chose fly around the course in those infernal four-wheeled monstrosities. There is plenty of room for both on a course. I am thankful that there are are still people like the developers like those who created Bandon Dunes who still feel that the world of golf cannot be adaquately appreciated through a piece of plexiglass, touched through foam rubber cushions, or smelled when tinged with internal combustion funes. As long as my poor, old feet will carry me, I choose to walk. I know where to push my Speed Cart. I know where to park it. I won't slow your group down. I can and do play as fast as you do. I just do it differently. I have a feeling that someday you may come to feel the same as many of us do. I hope so.

Had a chance to play a local 7000+ yd course with my nephew who was at the time playing on one of the several satelite tours. I was struck by how few times he hit driver off the tee and how many times he used a fairway wood or even long iron. If you are playing off the proper tees (which is were we all should be playing, notwithstanding the ego thing), a tee shot should only be a prelude to the "best" approach shot and nothing more. (But then, he could hit his 5 iron 190 yds. That makes a difference.)

I couldn't agree with you more - especially your comments about walking the course. It is a shame that cart rental fees have become such a critical part of golf course cashflow that courses are being designed to eliminate the possiblilty of walking. One course in our area has a first tee that is literally .25 miles from the club house and an equivalent walk from the 9th green back to the clubhouse and the 10th tee. Walking a course like this is not really an option. Even if a walking group is playing at a reasonable pace, the lag time between greens and tees makes the group fall behind. Clearly something needs to be done or the walker/carrier will become a thing of the past. Experiencing the great courses and the ambiance that distinguishes them will also be lost forever. Clearly, it is impossible to stuff the toothpaste back into the tube. Golf has become a very big business. As long as the profit potential is what it is, golfers will be object of greed and exploitation and the effects on our great game will be profound. I'm not sure where, when, or if the tide towards continued commericalization can be reversed. I suppose that a few voices crying out in the wilderness don't really mean much. As for me, I will continue to walk when I can, play clubs that have a classic timelessness about them, enjoy courses encourage shot making over "bomb and gouge" strategies, and try to remind people whenever I can that this great game was built by people with an unabiding love for the mystery of round ball against flat club, man against nature, and the joy of being apart of something timeless.

Amen to that. I'd camp out at the best golf school I could find in Arizona until that stupid over the top thing that I've developed recently goes away. Then I'd spend April and May playing Bandon, Pacific, etc. in Oregon. Then I'd probably start all over because I know that by then, I'd have some other hitch in my swing to fix. Buying equipment is fun, but it doesn't seem to cure my golf ills. I just wish I could buy a perfect swing.

My best golfing buddy and I were talking about "the good old days" when we were kids just learning the game. We both had the normal kids sets of 2 woods, 3,5,7,&9 irons, and a putter. We both agreed that going back to this configuration probably wouldn't hurt our handicaps more than a stroke or 2. I am beginning to believe that it might not hurt even that much. I am wondering what you good folks think. How much do you think your handicap would suffer with a seven or eight club bag? If you put together such a bag now, what would be in it? I am inclined to include the following: Driver 18* hybrid 4, 6, 9, PW irons putter Ping Moon-lite II or Ogio Sliver carry bag

And people wonder why we play golf!

I'll trade - straight up.

Perry Maxwell (Southern Hills, Prairre Dunes, etc.) is known for big, undulating greens. By the way, amazingly, there is a Perry Maxwell designed course (9 holes anyway) that you can play for almost nothing in Coffeyville, KS. This is the link to the course http://www.coffeyville.com/HillcrestGolfCourse.htm A buddy and I played it several years ago and it was incredible to find such a course in someplace as isolated as Coffeyville. I'll bet you wouldn't have any trouble figuring out which of the 18 holes were the Maxwell designed holes. I'm wondering, does anyone out there know of courses like Hillcrest - out of the way, relatively unkown public courses, designed by now famous designers?

When you get to Wichita - don't stop. Come to think of it, you probably can't stop. The wind is currently blowing about 45 MPH from the North and the temperature is in the very low 30's and supposedly headed down. In my opinion, go South until you hit the big lake with all the oil platforms in it.

Hit the stuff I have better - a lot better if I can.

Bill Evans - right now "New Conversations" - Remembeing the Rain. The best of the best IMHO

I'm sure there are at least 50 reasons why this shouldn't work but it solved a very similar problem for me - to the point that I very seldom miss a 3 footer or shorter. I come to a very brief halt before I bring my putter forward to strike the ball. It is the relative equivalent of the "no backswing" stroke that people link Miller Barber and others use for other clubs. It seems to let me shorten my swing and concentrate on accelerating through the ball. After all you can't decelerate past full stop. It will feel a little unnatural at first but eventually it will seem like to have been doing it all of your life. Good luck.

I love Bandon Dunes and will play it again someday soon. But until that day comes, I'll gladly play a Nick Faldo designed little gem only 40 miles from my house, Cottonwood Hills. I just hope that it survives the current economic unpleasantness. It's very nearly a masterpiece - for $35 a round.