lazebone

Phew. I must say I'm not enjoying the debating each any every piece of our posts. And again, this was not the original intention of the thread. If I read too much into what I considered your "ripping apart" my post, then I apologize. However, I "very clearly" explained that the get together was an enjoyable event where certain rules need not apply. If you are personaly dissapointed that it was not acceptable for the event organizers to not include certain rules of the game, I do apologize. Please let me specify now that we were playing a mutated version of golf where 17 clubs and extra bends are not grounds for disqualification. Guess what else? Some people even practiced putted on the first green! The first rules in golf (although you may not find it in the book) is to have fun. As long as everyone is playing by the same rules, I see no problem in gentlemen deciding to disclude ones that they see fit. It's the same thing as adding a rule. Sometimes we play 9 holes with a 7 iron only. Of course this is a "local" rule. While not illegal, it still is an example of the creation of a rule by everyone agreed. What if I used a driver that was illegal by USGA standards, but conformed to R and A standards in a local tournament that decided to play by R and A rules as opposed to the USGA? We could go round and round and round. It just comes down to the fact that you seem to want me to feel as though I cheated and I will not. If it had been any other situation where all USGA rules were in effect, you better believe that I would take the apporpriate actions. Once again, I implore you to return to the original intent of this thread. (Ironic stories.)

Somewhat irrelevant, maybe. Because of the fact that I play in certain mini-tour events, I certainly don't want anyone to have the impression that my past competition was anything but legitimate. I agree as well about the rules applying to events both important and otherwise. However you missed the context of my statement. I was implying that I would be devastated should I have found that I competed illegally in an "important tournament" (something where I make some money) and that I would not be as upset to be stripped of my "crystal" dish should it be found that I played in that tournament with an illegal club. To a clever eye this would also imply that if I were to find that I had competed illegally in a pro tournament, I would be compelled to follow through with appropriate actions. I explained further in my post that the rule governing illegal clubs may not even have been in effect. Of course, we are assuming that the putter is illegal. I gave an example of specifically, the 14 club rule, not being enforced. Agreed. So ......... maybe I'm not absorbing this .... but .... it's exactly as I understood it before; the direction of the bends are not illegal as long as they fall within the measurements allowed... I just failed to state the measurements. ........................ I was going to post the picture yesterday, but was out too late at the course. Likewise, today. I just got in and was very excited to check this thread out. I must say I am quite disappointed in the lack of activity on the original intent of this post, and second of your ripping apart my post and explaining to me how irrelevant my explanation was as relating to the topic. Although I must admit, you are well spoken and I look forward to further rules discussions in the future, as I find such conversations quite enjoyable as well. I just think ya coulda been a bit more sociable. ------------------------------------ As for the putter's description, I never explained it in detail, because it was not the original intent of the post. However, upon closer inspection I believe this putter might just be legal, save for the possibility of the shaft leaning too far to the back. I will have to check on this. I explained that the putter sat flat on the ground when the shaft was installed in the reverse of its original position. I described the putter shaft as "bent to hell" in its ORIGINAL position. My post very clearly implied that the putter fell within the guidelines of normal once the shaft was reversed. For example ... if I were to take a putter and bend it forward 1 degree past the 0 degree vertical line, this putter were be deemed "bent to hell" by any sense of the description. However, should that shaft be installed in the reverse, I believe it would fall within legal specifications. ........................................... Long story short- the shaft may or may not be illegal (by USGA regulations), I don't really care. Anything I've won, with this putter, I feel quite comfortable in keeping due to the settings in which that putter was used. The original post was only stating that it was ironic that a putter I hated turned out the be a beloved treasure after it was almost destroyed. I'm a rules guy too, but keep in mind that golf is a gentleman's game, and the gentlemen playing are those who decide which rules will be in effect. If a local tourney plays the ball down in the rough, but "roll it" in the fairway (most common at any local event), the players are not playing the game as it was intended to be played, but not illegally either as it relates to their particular event.

And as a way of continuing this thread in the original intent, I submit this story ... Last summer I was playing at a course I used to frequent when I was younger. I still enjoy going there to practice sometimes, and so I happened over on a Sunday morning. The game on Sunday at this particular club is a points play. (1 for bogey, 2 for par, 4 for birdie, etc.) You are assigned your quota of points based on a cumulative average kept by the computer in the pro shop. Since it had been a number of years since I played in this group (about 50 people or so), they got together to give me a quota, as my previous average in the computer would have been a bit to low for me to go for. They decided on the number of points, and my foursome headed on its way. I played a decent front nine and was on schedule to make my points. I birdied ten and hit a magnificent drive on the 11th hole, which doglegs to the right. I was in a position that cannot be seen off of the tee box, but just as well the tee box could not be seen from my vantage point. As I played my shot (just as I began to come down) a ball slammed down out of nowhere and ricocheted off of my foot. I luckily had begun to turn and the ball caught my heel and bounced away without doing much other than stinging me for a few moments. Now, I've had some extremely close calls (as I'm sure most of us have had) to being taken out for good, but as well I've had my share of embarrassing moments where I've almost taken a few people out of the game as well. These experiences helped me to keep a very calm demeanor and I was quite nice and sympathetic to the guy who apologized when he reached the fairway, although the members of my group were not as kind. (It's well known at that course, that you wait until the group playing rings the bell before the group n the tee can play.) I played decently enough through the next few holes and when I reached the fifteenth, a par 5, I destroyed the ball, flying it about 5 yards right of the center fairway and about 207 from the green. I hit one of the most solid 5 irons I believe I've ever hit and watched the ball drift right to left towards the hole. I clearly saw the ball bounce in front of the hole and then it was gone. I truly assumed the ball had shot over the back of the green and shoved the club back in my bag. The guy riding with me swore that it went in, but I was having none of it. We reached the green and I searched behind. When I saw nothing, I then knew that the ball was in the hole. Double Eagle! I believe to this day, that my reaction in the situation described on the 11th hole is what led to this play and my 16 points on the single hole which led to a nice little payday. That is definitely something I neeeever saw coming. Be back with the info on the Putter later tonight!

Quite interesting responses! (and yes Surefire, I was wondering if anyone would point that out to me, but it really wasn't my intention for the thread, lol) However, I have become very intrigued in the discussion. Let me first state that I had not turned pro at that time and have not used the putter in any event that is of any "importance." With that said, the event won with the putter was played at a course affectionately known as "the Rockpile," for reasons I assume you can deduce. While "USGA" regulated, no strict enforcement is made, particularly because there are a number of entrants who for years and years have demanded to play with more than their 14 clubs. Basically its just a get together where good players play on a crappy course and cook hotdogs and hamburgers afterwards. Plus, I feel pretty comfortable in keeping my "crystal" plate because the pro in charge of the event is the one who put the reversed shaft in anyway. Next up, I have reviewed the (Appexdix ii 2A) and rules the precede and follow. From my understanding, neither the amount, nor the direction of the bends are of any importance as long as they fall within the measurements allowed of of the vertical line of play as it relates to the grip. I am quite curious about this now and will take the putter to a rules guy I know when I go to play. (Here in about an hour.) I'll also snap a pic of the putter and post it on here to give you guys an idea of what I am talking about. I believe that the putter will be deemed illegal, and for that very reason I haven't used the putter in any serious competition. Keep in mind this thing was bent in ... maybe 2000, 20001, and the event won was around a year or so after that. It's been a while, lol.

Looking for interesting, ironic stories! I had a brand new Odyssey #5 that didn't seem to want to help me out one day during a tournament. After missing a short birdie putt on a drivable par 4, I decided that throwing the club wayyyyy up in the air was the best option. It was a mighty nice throw I might add, with plenty of hang time. However, the club landed head first on the cart path about 40 yards or so away. The shaft was as gnarled as an old tree at the bottom. I went to my pro to get a new shaft installed but was told that the hosel was so bent that no new shaft could be installed. However, we noticed that if we turned the original (now bent to hell) shaft around (exactly 180 degrees) the head sat flat and square to the ground. The putter went into the closet. After a few months a buddy who began playing golf again grabbed it, and I told him to hold on to it as long as he wanted. Although the bottom of the shaft looked strange, the club still set up quite well. I played with him 2 or 3 times over the course of a year, each time remembering "Oh yeah, I forgot you had that!" One day we headed out to the course and I realized on the first green that I had left my putter in the truck (as I had been practice putting the day before.) Of course, being that he was using what was still my putter, (and being a nice guy) he offered to share the putter for the first nine. After 9 holes and 10 putts, I had a new (old) putter in my bag, and my buddy was stuck with another oldie out of my closet! Two weeks later I won a "crystal" (more like cheap glass, lol) dish commemorating a first place finish at an annual local muni course tournament, thanks to my improved touch on the greens. I still have the Odyssey, and while I was once willing to toss it 40 yards onto a cart path and give it away to friends, I treasure that bent up piece of metal as strong as any other favorite club I've ever had.

Lol, I should have clarified that this is on the Tarheel Tour.

A man and his wife were on the course when they arrived at the 14th tee. The man smacked the ball with a horrible hook and watched the white dot disappear into an old barn kept on the course mainly for looks. The man, a golf purist, and his wife traveled to the barn and took a look at the situation. The ball had nestled right in the middle of the old barn. The wife told her husband he'd be better off taking a drop, but the man, being a bit stubborn, studied the shot. From the behind the ball, he told his wife to hand him a 4 iron. "I can hit this shot," he said. "All I have to do is keep it low enough to get it out the door, and then it should roll down that hill there, see?" "I think you should take a drop," said the wife. The man grabbed his own 4 iron from the bag and set up to the ball. After getting steady, he took a mighty swing. In an instant, the ball barely caught the top of the door frame and came back at the couple, catching his wife squarely between the eyes. Sadly, she passed. 3 years later, almost to the day the man and his new bride came to the 14th tee. A tear feel from the man's eye as he remembered the fateful day. Although he kept this a secret from his new wife. The tee shot was a carbon copy of the one 3 years ago, and found the barn once again. When the couple arrived at the old building, he saw that it had settled in almost exactly the same spot. "Looks like I'll have to take a drop," said the man. "No, baby," said the wife. "I think you can hit this one." "No, no, no." "Sure you can. Look how big that door frame is there." "Now I don't think I should honey." "Come on now, go ahead. It's the best shot." "Dammit woman," said the man. " Last time I did that I made a bogey." ......................................................... Aren't you glad you read all the way through that one? Lol ... ok ok ... maybe not. The next one is better. ------------------------------------------ A man and two friends were sitting at a table in the snack room of their local course. One guy kept talking about how superior his new golf ball was. "Yeah, well what makes it so special?" said his buddy. "You can't lose it," came the reply. "Whattya mean you can't lose it?" "Just that. You can't lose it." "Well what if you knock it in the water?" "It floats! You can't lose it." "Well what if it's kinda dark outside and you can't see it?" "It glows in the dark! You can't lose it!" "Okay smart guy, well what happens when you slice it out of bounds deep in the woods with no chance of seeing it under the leaves?" "It has a beeper that will sound until I get to it. You can't lose this thing!" "Well damn," said the other friend. "I'm gonna have to get me one of those. Where'd you get it?" "I found it." ................................................................ Ok, maybe this one wasn't any better, lol.

I don't do it too much after a shot, but I flip the putter in my hand just before I set up, because it "refreshes" the feel for me. This is a little move I picked up from my brother without realizing it, but have realized what it actually does for me since I've used it.

Some pretty good tips on here. Lol, don't try everything at once though!! I've found that looking at a putt from the opposite site of the hole gives me the most feedback. Especialllllly on those tricky 5-10 footers. While walking around to the other side of the hole is when I take into account the lay of the land. Yep! Gravity dooooes make a difference, lol. Sometimes a hole may be cut leaning to the left but the hole may be carved into a hill leaning to the right, for example. Even though it looks every bit like the ball has to turn to the left, it ma actually to straight because of the gravity effect. Reading greens is not always about what you see from behind the ball.

Lol, I hate to repost, but ... It is amazing to me how people are sooooo worried about getting that alignment right. It's artificial. You can set up perfectly and still be a horrible putter. Same thing with the golf swing. I will say again, because I have found success through these tips. I am relaying information taught to me by a very old pro. The best putters in the world could putt with any technique. Technique is not what makes the putter, it only improves his or her precision. You will notice improvement much more quickly if you concentrate on feel before technique. Do you really think PGA pros figured out the perfect alignment, and then all the sudden they made everything? Of course not. They have an inert ability that technique only helps. Working with lines and this and that is fine to tune a stroke, but it sounds as dagolfer was trying to figure out how to create a natural stroke.

To the collegiate wondering about being able to play on the mini-tour stuff ... Sure, you can play, but with a small amount of cost. To Mon. qualify, it's $150 for an Am. I do believe, with a $250 cost for entry into the tournament if you make it. (This is in comparison to a $950 entry fee for pros.) However, the competition is sweet, and will give you a great idea of where your game stands in comparison. ......... Yep, the Hooters Tour is a live and kicking with some pretty good fields, and great payouts. In fact, I'll be playing in the Mar. 9-15 Hooter's Tour Open and the Rock Barn Course in NC. First tournament of the year for me, so wish me luck! ................ Ben, the Tarheel Tour is awesome, and a great way to make some cash if you are playing well. However, I would recommend getting used to those 54 and 72 hole events before partaking, if all you've been doing is the one and two day thing. In my opinion, the Tarheel Tour is more competitive than the Hooter's, at least that's the way it seemed last year. I'm jealous about the Japan thing, lol. I've thought about that for a while, but haven't even checked out the specs on it, just because I've assumed the money thing wouldn't work out.

Let me ask you Dagolfer: Do you ever go to the putting green and just hit a few at the hole- ABSOLUTELY not paying any attention whatsoever to your stroke, or how you look, or anything as far as technique? I would recommend i, if you haven't. (Of course I'd also do this when alone as I understand this might be a bit embarrassing if others didn't know what you were up to, lol) Why do children normally progress at golf quicker than an adult? Because they pay absolutely no attention to what anyone tells them. They do what feels natural. If someone gave you a broom handle and a tennis ball and told you to poke it towards a hole, you would think nothing of technique, but only of feel, because there is no predetermined setup. Just "whack" at it a few times and watch that slight cut disappear. What this is designed to do, is to help you FEEL the correct release of the club, your natural release if you will. Do you feel the club more with your left or with your right hand? Take this into account as you smack at it. Remember the feel of your release. You should be rolling at something at least 25 feet in length, and in somewhat of a pretty quick routine. Don't take your time, or and only set up once. Don't "get set". This is important. Just walk up, brace, and pop it. Roll about 15 or 20 balls. Now find a flat 10 footer (or a moderate right to left for a right handed, left to right left-handed) and roll it the same way you were "whacking" at it, and concentrate SOLELY on your speed. Make that ball stop within six inches short or long each time. Don't worry about making them. As your speed comes together, you will notice that your ball will begin to "roll" instead of skiff, bounce, etc, etc. You will also notice that your tempo will magically improve. After rolling 30 or so putts with the correct speed in a row, its time to roll some 3 footers. Putt those three-footers like they are for the match. By this time in the drill, you should really have a good sense of feel. Making those three-footers will also instill confidence. After making around 30 or so, feel free to take a break, maybe roll a few other putts. Again, this drill is to work on your feeeeel. And when working with feel, technique is not to be on the mind. Once you are confident that you are putting the dead level best you will with a natural roll, then it is time to start working on rocking those shoulders, and putter path. I realize this is probably something you've never heard and will probably never hear from anyone else, but I implore you to try it, and let me hear how it worked for you. I'll be willing to bet that after two sessions of this, two-putting will be the least of your worries, and you'll begin to see more rolls having a chance to drop. Remember- the best putters in the world could putt with any technique. Technique is not what makes the putter, it only improves his or her precision. Hope this is of some help : )

I've been lucky enough to really only lose a few wedges due to the occasional out of the way placement. However, when I was a junior golfer, I left a particular sand wedge behind at my local course more than a few times. In each instance, the wedge (a Brunswick lob wedge, my very first) was behind the counter of the pro shop waiting for me. After about the fourth or fifth time over the summer, the pro apparently took it home to teach me a lesson. As much as I miss that wedge, the lesson was a valuable one. When not playing in a tourney, I tend to lay my wedges on the flagstick, as it (1) keeps me from forgetting the clubs and (2) keeps the moisture (when present) off the grip. I also find that for some reason when you lay a club on the flag, it makes everyone else in the group want to put the flag back as normally, there is at least one in the group that tends to never know how much the pin weighs if you know what I mean. Weird, but try it yourself!

Are you still doing the single-day tourney stuff or have you gotten into any longer events? Most of the ones I play in are 54-72 holes.

This thread has been quite interesting to read. Ben, how much time are you able to devote to practice currently? (Whether through range or play) I played a few events on the Tarheel Tour last year and plan to play quite a few this year, as well as some select tourneys on the Hooter's. I'll also try my hand at the Wyndham Monday qualifier again this year. I missed it last year by 2 shots. I've been a member of another golf forum for some time, but am glad to find one that seems to be active! The other one gets a reply once every few days to a week, lol.