Peter_b

Same lip outs and rim burners on soaky, wet greens. Sure the stampede from the flights before doesn’t help. Now besides the bumpy roll of the ball do you guys over- or underread the greens? Also what to do against the cone that is around the hole on soft greens from previous flights on soft greens, invisible but there, that just pushes the ball away from the hole.

What does the correct pendulum putt feel like or how is it driven? No target specified: swing up to a point with shoulder turn motor and then just relax and let the ball being picked up? Or how would you explain to someone who is jabbing the putt?

I just don't want to be part of a conversation like this. I am said to insult which I still don't understand why and when I want to back off I am playing victim. Never said you teach the swingdoor hip around the left femur, that is what most of us bad hippers do and you are trying to fix. Never said that you teach something wrong. Never said the Tripod drill is wrong. My problem with the hip is hauting me for 33 years. So frustrating to know that you are not using an engine in the swing, that you could hit it a 50y more if you understood. I even flew to DanC to Jacks from Europe. You can check it on his site. You will see a bucket between my legs. He could fix it for a short time indirectly. No one could ever explain to me what the hip motion was about how it had to work. Then I saw the GGswingtips squat and that was maybe the closest explanation to what there is to be done with the hip. The problem with the GG squat is a timing one and you can squat in so many positions with so many possible hip positions. So yeah "you heard it here first" was to put it sensational. I found a way to show someone how to position his hip in the downswing. That is something I have never read or seen in hundreds of books and thousands of youtube flics and was never taught in countless Pro lessons. For me it was sensational and I wanted to share that. "you heard it here first" Ill just turn OFF notification now as you cant delete your account here. Again sorry for any bad feelings.

Wow I really insulted you, sorry for that, wasn’t intended. I wanted to share a finding I thought could help others with my problem. It went south. That’s about it, I don't have more to say. Won´t happen again.

alright

You are overreacting iacas but alright Ill stop here.

Oh Ill get better at this! I just understood how the hip has to go where.

Yeah for me its pretty open. Check the video some posts above where you see how I sidestep.

That is just what I am trying to explain here. You can translate the hip position from feet together drill where it is a 100 times easier to do right. Video works now. This is my hip position from the closed feet drill after the side step in P6. I think its pretty good for someone who is not able to open his hips at impact. I now understand on how to do so.

Never said its not the way to go, read my answer to iacas. You absolutely have to do the lateral movement when the feet are apart. My point really is, in the feet together drill you can quickly use the hips correctly, much easier use them correctly than in the full swing. Try to translate it to the full swing. I am trying to give a method to do so.

Alright I take the points of the OWN feeling. Its for sure important. I still say I am not incorrect. My opinion is that it is not the lateral movement to the target but to bring the hip in the right position, is the key to a good swing. The lateral movement is a necessity as the feet are apart. Sadly it makes it much harder to use the hip correctly. It is also my strong belief that golfers are devided in those who can use the hip motor by nature and those who can not. You will find a lot of longhitters hitting 300y and more in the first group and and a lot of arms swingers, goat humpers and hand flippers where driving is limited to about 250y-280y. What I am trying to show is that if you use the hip-motor correctly in the feet together drill it will help you determine on how to use the hip when the feet are apart. If you like it’s a method to get the knee to the tripod or make the wastbin between your legs tilt. I have not seen any feet together drill flic that tries to explain the full swing hip rotation through the closed feet swing. In fact my method is extremely easy to do with a strong feedback that lateral movement, with swinging the hip around the left femur like a western-door, is not the way to go and a strong feedback on how it is to be done.

Lets see if I can make people understand on how to rotate the hip correctly. And I am not lying, I do really think your Tripod thing, like the bucket thing of other pros does not help understand what there is to do with the hip. I dont think I insulted you.

Here you go just a cold quick and dirty attic movie and I am sure others can do it better then me but you will get the idea. The P6 after the step isn't ideal for sure but what is correct is the pelvis rotation for sure. If you do this you will feel it is completely different than what you are doing right now with the hips. https://youtu.be/uVhBcGhvFWw When you stop in P6 examine the hip rotation. It is far right and as much away from the ball as possible on the outmost orbit. Did I do that in the full swing? Move laterally left and meanwhile counterrotate the hip to the outmost right orbit? Well no I for sure did not. Also check slomo pro swings now and you will see it after understanding.

I feel with you and I can make a video but its not different than the Clement feet together movies. What I can demonstrate is the translation of the P6 from feet together to full swing P6 Position. What is really important is to feel what your butt is doing in the feet together drill and you swing the arms only by lower body movement (passive arms). As I said you will feel counterweight and that your butt counterrotates. If you are an arm swing you are not doing that in the full swing. The feet together drill also teaches to swing hands deep. If you don't you fall sideways. That’s the clue in the feet together drill it is extremely restrictive and isolating. Yes it will be a real challenge to shift weight/move sideways to the left foot after understanding what the hip must do, how it has to rotate. But that’s a step after understanding. It gets possible then.

Hi iacas, I hoped you would take part in this conversation. I know your thread with the tripod and right knee to it. It is partly why this thread exists. I was not able to learn the correct hip motion by your findings nor could any of the arm swingers, short hitters, goat humpers, flippers on the following 28 pages. So you say They move laterally as they rotate. I agree, completely. The question is how do they rotate while they move laterally? Do they rotate around the left leg like a swing door? While they do that is the left hip staying in place or is it going back? What is the right hip doing ? You see that motion is brutally complicated and you will not learn it with a tripod between your legs (I could not). With my method you do. They move laterally as they rotate. Well they don't if they have their feet together as they would fall to the side. They would not able to swing. I isolate the hip turning with this drill, there is no move laterally. I define the position of the hip in P6. One condition: swing with his body not the arms. That’s why I say hit a couple of buckets. Bad hippers are mostly arm swingers. A player with a bad hip movement who is a 100% a short hitter in his handicap class doing my drill will say wow, this is the hip position I need to be in before impact? Unbelievable I would never have thought to bring my hip in such a position. Try it yourself. Feet together stop in P6, step left with left foot without changing the hip rotation and now do your move laterally without rotating hip and bring the weight mostly on the left foot. Now tell me this is not the correct hip position in P6. There are a lot of attempts to define the hip rotation like Ggswingtips with its squat but they are makeshift solutions as you can squat in a million ways. None I have found explaining what to do. This ends here.

Edit: replace pelvis with lower body or hips please, I really don't care about the pelvis position anatomically. There is just a posture to understand and learn that will not happen to all of us naturally. a lot of these feet together drills. They just do not get what there is to learn.

It takes a couple of buckets until you are comfy swinging feet together. You will realise, as I said, you can swing your arms by body turn alone, you can accelerate the swing by body turn. You also will notice the faster you turn you need your butt as counterweight not to fall to the front. There is where the arm swinger realises what swinging with the lower body means and what passive arms are. Does that make it more clear? For the pelvis it sits on two bones. Put a cardboard on two sticks in each hand and you can move the box around in a million directions. But take the two sticks in one hand and the box rotation is extremely limited. In fact it can only rotate around your hand or fall to a side. This is the same with the pelvis if you have your feet together. The "sticks"= femurs are together at the knees. The pelvis will rotate or tilt to the side. If you watch any feet together drill on youtube you will see the pelvis rotates and tilts a bit. It tilts against the force that happens from the club. So the pelvis will act as counterbalance. Is that more clear now?

deleteing this as you edited your text. Sure will do later.

First of all you read this here first. I found a way to easily set the hip rotation in the downswing. I am playing for 33 years, have read tons of books and took hundreds of lessons but no one could explain to me how to rotate the hips. And we don't have to understand this complicated double jointed system. We just need to understand the position we need to get into. So here is how to make the hip work. 1. hit buckets and buckets with feet together until feel your back as counterweight. You can check Shawn Clement on how to do this on youtube. Cant listen to the guy makes me nervous but he shows it well. 2. If you have the counter weight feel and you feel that you can accelerate the arms without actively swinginging them just by the counterweight of your butt. You are set when you hit about the same distances as with feet apart. Feel that you can accelerate with the hips as counterweight. You will extend and bend your upper body doing so and flexing both knees and extending them. 3. get to P6 and stop with feet together, see what P6 is in the attached picture but still feet together. Examine how your hip is located in space. Feels like pushed out to the rear right. That is the position of the hip you need in the full swing and it is a complete new feel for most of us. 4. make a step left from P6 feet together. In the full swing you need to slide on the left leg and do that hip rotation you just leaned. Stepping left will show you how this feels about with feet apart but your weight will be too much on the right. Never mind you just learned how your hip has to be positioned in the downswing. You will be able to add the weight shift. Watch Macs swing on how he does it. He does it beautifully. Why this works is while the feet are together the hip can only rotate around the knees as one knee, and if you do it wrong you either fall to the side or you don´t move the hip at all. The pelvis rotates around the knees like the earth around the sun. Omg that is cheesy lol. For most of us setting the hip movement like that feels almost opposite of what we have done before. Most of us do swingdoor movements of the pelvis around a leg then the other. With this you understand this is not what you need. It’s a rotation of the pelvis around a point that is somewhere above the center between your knees and that point is sliding in the swing.

I have one thing to check for you guys missing on the right side and have measured a constant open club face at impact. I just found I am straightening the right arm into the contact of the putters downswing. Yeah you do that with irons and woods. I use the Skypro (accurate to 0.1) to measure the face-angle at impact and I could not get the faceangle to below 1.5° no matter what I did. Now that I don't let the putter leave orbit I am down to 0 to 0.5°. It’s a nasty fault as the feel is know from the full swing and not perceived as wrong. Maybe worth a dedicated look! PS I am putting on a slight arc not on the line

Fully agreed.

head position at setup, head position at impact, front view. When swaying head is way ahead original position almost a full head width.

with head sway I mean a full head in fron view to impact. Doesn’t work for me. Its cheating and so will be the shots.

Yeah completely different feel and the arms start definitely after hips and torso. From there if you exchange picking up the ball from turf/ hit it thin, with compression then it gets interesting and the feel changes even more.