NuroPane

Hi @Lihu & @BaconNEggs I don't know much about some of the players on the top 10 driving list because I mostly follow the USLPGA, US Seniors and the Euro Tour. However, I did look at the swings on Youtube, my summary of their 'Freak-ness' is provided at the end but it is not a conclusive assessment as I only looked at each swing briefly if I was not already familiar with it. The Top 10 is a good pick statistically as they are all close to a driving average of 310 yards or a few yards further. Notice that only 2 players under 6 foot are in the top 10 and both under the age of 30. Height is an advantage, if it was not an advantage and not important then the statistics would show players of various heights in the top 10. My quick calculation is that the average height of the 8 tallest who are all above 6 foot is just under 6 foot 3 on average, which is about 4.5 inches on average than the shortest players, Rory and Brandon Hagy. I would like to add, that my perception is that all of the 10 players have a pronounced knee driving forward on downswing. They are all relatively young, meaning they are not 35+, flexible, fit and I'm sure they all work out the right way. There is no secret in how they generate so much speed when you take all their attributed into account. The players that I believe are not freaks generate their backswing torque by allowing their hips to turn on the backswing which gives them allot of space with limited restriction on the downswing to slot the club. If you are interested and want to get the same feeling of your right side (hip moving back), that is relatively easy to do. When you next hit the range do some drills, purposefully lift your left heal off the ground on the backswing to get the feeling of your right side moving away, as shown in the attached Sam Snead images. Here's my list. Rory - 28 - 5 foot 10 - Freak he creates huge torque with limited hip turn Dustin - 33 - 6 foot 4 - Not a freak - posts on right side leg - unrestricted hip turn on the backswing Brandon Hagy - 26 - 5 foot 11 - not a freak - posts on right side leg - unrestricted hip turn on the backswing Ryan Brehm - 31 - 6 foot 4 - somewhat of a freak - posts on right side leg - somewhat restricted hip turn on the backswing Luke List - 32 - 6 foot 2 - Not a freak - posts on right side leg - unrestricted hip turn on the backswing Andrew Loupe - 28 - 6 foot 1 - Somewhat of a Freak - posts on right side leg with knee bend (I have no idea how he does it) - unrestricted hip turn on the backswing Brooks Koepka - 27 - 6 foot 0 - Absolute Freak - he creates huge torque with no posting on the right leg and limited hip turn on the backswing Tony Finau - 27 - 6 foot 4 - Somewhat of a Freak - Some restriction in the backswing - lots of torque Trey Mullinex - 25 - 6 foot 4 - Not a freak - posts on right side leg - unrestricted hip turn on the backswing Kevin Tway - 29 - 6 foot 3 - Somewhat of a freak - posts on right side leg - somewhat of a restricted hip turn on the backswing

Have you change your mind? Mate and I'm the one that is being called a troll. Now that is a passive aggressive troll comment.

More of the same, the follow through. DJ's swing adhere's to MA's theories more than MA's actual swing. Please pay particular attention to the right forearm on both it is pointing at the sky. MA said it was like and underarm throwing action.

As you can see in the following images both swings are very similar at the downswing stage. It is very difficult to compare as the sequence of the frames are different and you can see that DJ has started to release the club. If we had an image of MA that was a fraction of a second later it would be almost identical as you would see that MA also releases the club what many PGA teachers say is early. Which is against conventional belief that you have to hold onto the wrist set. DJ is also more over the ball and MA is behind the ball more, but the key is that the right shoulder lever is behind the right knee. I won't add any words to this image, but if you were a MA disciple and you knew about his swing theories, DJ's swing is more MA than Mike's.

As you can see in the above image the top of the back swing is very similar. The right leg has straightened a bit, but it is not locked, the hands are high and above the head in the image. The left arm is not locked and it is not perfectly straight. you can see that both MA and DJ have pronated left wrists.

@JonMA1 mate you have taken it completely out of context. I was attacked by internet trolls with insulting comments without cause. Am I supposed to just let others walk all over me, sit back and take their abuse? Are you saying I can't defend my self? Or do you have a problem with me being proving that I believe MA's swing theories are valid? You are the internet troll and you are good at it because you have done it in a covert and politically correct way........ Congratulations you have taken out of context what I have said and you didn't contribute to the discussion in a valid way at all but you just had to have your say?

Spieth - right elbow has moved away from the body. Before someone on this forum wants to start cutting into me about the mechanics or right elbow needing to move away from the body. Please don't because you simply just can't let go off your ill conceived ideas of what is a proper golf swing. I could spend hours explaining it to you and that could be an entirely different forum discussion. Lets keep in mind that what I am doing is debunking ignorant and dangerous remarks and statements by someone who claims to be the best golf digests young professional teacher @iacas. I personally find offensive that you are teaching anyone because @iacas you know nothing about the golf swing and you made stupid claims. I have proved it within a couple of posts on two simple things the address and takeaway. @mvmac I'm also calling you out, both of you got stuck into people who were searching and reaching out for assistance. @RandallT I'm calling you out as well, seriously what a terrible grubby attitude you have attacking me for no reason at all. @billchao seriously mate your comment about DJ's arms staying up whilst his body turns was ridiculous and I almost didn't respond to it and almost pissed myself laughing. Seriously, are you kidding! how the hell can your arms stay up in the air whilst your body is turning. You know that your arms are attached to your body and whatever your body does your arms will follow! When you read this please stand up and do a pretend back swing, rotate your body and see if your arms can stay up in the air. I actually kind of feel offended that you actually responded to my post.

Note that in the address image the set up was almost the same, granted a couple of differences but nothing that distinguishes that either MA or DJ adhere to a different theory as to how to set to the ball. You will notice in the UpSwing image - the positions are very very similar (almost similar). Both have their right elbow tucked to their right side (next to their body) on the takeaway. I will shortly post two images of Rory and Spieth, you can see for yourself that they extend their right elbow away from their body. I'm not saying that either way is the right way to do it; meaning letting the right elbow move away from the body on the UpSwing. Each to their own as everyone is free to swing they want to and I don't believe it is really that important. Prove me wrong if you think otherwise. Rory - Note right elbow has moved away from the body at the same position (9 O'Clock). Note that DJ and MA's right elbows do not move away at 9 O'Clock.

@RandallT You said: "Umm, you challenged him to discuss things, so it is on you to start. Why would you think you could just announce you are ready for an argument have them come crawling to you? That's odd." Wow you can read my mind and you are very expressive with the words that you use! Maybe I'm just a polite person that doesn't like be a derogatory vulture and start bashing into a person that I don't know. In response to me not rebutting what they have stated: I did make a rebuttal, please refer to the 9 points I made; or did you miss that? Also, did I state I was basing my argument on JH's video alone. I said "I came across the video on Youtube. JH does a (very good job) explaining (some) of the keys to the MAS method that you will find very similar to keys in DJ's swing". I don't get your point, are you criticising me for using the example? If so, why? What do yo mean by your statement "The fact that there are 9 similarities isn't particularly convincing to me"...........I can't interpret your statement, or do you mean unless MA's swing looked like DJ's then you would be convinced?

@RandallT With regards to your comment above, what have they (Exhaustively) covered? Your comment is ignorant and a childish statement. With regards to their rebuttal, it was offered to another person on the forum and not to me. I being polite and asked if I could take up the challenge. Unlike you, as you have offered to provide seeds of wisdom based on a post in this forum. @billchao Your kidding mate, your statement is at the most moronic......... "One of my favourite parts of DJ's swing is the transition where everything starts rotating but the arms stay up". Dear God have another look at the images posted. DJ's arms have moved a considerable amount within a fraction of a second. What are you looking at? If you are going to challenge what I'm saying make it factual, not on what is your perception!

@RandallT Can you speak English please I don't understand you. As far as I can make what your saying is that you are attacking me in some way, but I don't really understand what your saying because of your poor English.

Well iacas seems that you are not keen to start so I'll do it for you. With regards to Dustin Johnson (DJ) having no similarities with the Mike Austin Swing (MAS) Please watch the below clip from an Auzzie bloke (Kyle Myers). I don't know Karl and I'm lucky that I cam across the video on Youtube. Karl does a very good job explaining some of the keys to the MAS method that you will find sound very similar to keys in DJ's swing. DJ and MA do and share the following key actions in their swings: 1. Cupped left wrist at address 2. Forward press before take-away 3. Shut club face going back (pronated wrist) 4. Right leg straitens, but does not lock 5. Arms start the downswing 6. Right leg drives forward on downswing 7. Right shoulder (fulcrum - explained by Karl in the below video) behind right knee at impact 8. Release is an under action and not a rolling action 9. Right forearm pointing at the sky at 3 O'Clock. To prove me wrong please post images of DJ doing anything other than what is described in my post. Would you like me to post video's of DJ's swing and MA's so that you can compare them.

Hi iacas, Can I take up the challenge on behalf of MRugroden. But I want to do it in a civil and positive way without attacking people as you have in this forum post. You've made allot of statements and claims that you state are facts that I believe are incorrect. I'm not a Mike Austin disciple but he (Mike Austin) and many other very good/great golfers either pro or amateur share many certain key similarities notwithstanding that they do not swing the same way or look like they are swinging in the same way. However, in a great percentage of good/great golfers of the past and contemporary, there are certain swing keys that are common and sometimes not present at all. However, the fundamental keys Mike Austin did actually map for us. Some of these keys were exaggerated (over emphasised) by Mike Austin but the language that he used is different to the way we communicate present day. The words that he used cannot be easily deciphered and put into context when the vocabulary of his era makes it difficult for us to slot it into our frame of reference when we speak and judge swing mechanics. I hope that you take up my challenge as I hope to glean your knowledge as we run through the entire process so that all that may read this forum post benefit from it in improving their swing mechanics and most importantly enjoyment of the game. Lets tee off!