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Everything posted by Southern by Choice
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They stated pairings are random, but I think the club uses software that takes the guesswork out. I like your attitude about possibly getting to play more golf! OR I might only get to play one round…🥴
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I’m playing in a Match Play Tournament where only 12 players signed up. Because of bracketing, four of the 12 get a bye. Can you explain why the four BEST players in the field got the bye? It clearly isn’t random.
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Amateur Tournaments, Rankings and False Handicaps
Southern by Choice replied to Sandy Lie's topic in Golf Talk
Could be. Unfortunately, she doesn’t really understand the GHIN system and is unlikely to notice this notation. (She is a friend, and I’ve explained the importance of posting ALL her scores, but she just loves to watch her index go down.) 🤷🏼♀️ -
Amateur Tournaments, Rankings and False Handicaps
Southern by Choice replied to Sandy Lie's topic in Golf Talk
Vanity handicapper busted? A member of my club only posts her good scores, and I’m wondering if that came to the attention of the Handicap Committee. Her GHIN page shows the notice below; but no adjustment was made. Any idea what’s going on? -
The pro shop computes game winners and then posts scores after play. Suggestions on how to record the hole and make this easy for all? There are often 40 players on a League day.
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It’s just a rule that the League I belong to has adopted; it makes no sense to me, either! I've quoted the above rule in its entirety, directly from a recent email. Ironically, the League has just made a revision to our By-Laws stating that we are "governed by the USGA rules of golf and local League rules."
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Oops, my mistake. The MAX SCORE is used for posting, and it is also used for any "game" competition. (This is to prevent handicap strokes from reducing a hole that is not completed.) Example: a player is lying 5 on the green in a better ball competition. Her partner already has the hole, so she picks up to help pace of play. She believes her most likely score to be 7, but under the LOCAL RULE, she posts 8X, which is par 4 + 2 + 2 handicap strokes.
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Another local rule question… Note that the NET score posted will be your max, both for the competition and for posting purposes. I think this artificially inflates handicaps, if nothing else. If you pick up on a hole, mark the hole with an X and you will receive your max score as the net score for that hole.
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If a player picks up, she receives her NDB score for the hole for both GROSS and NET. A par 5 and I get 2 strokes; NDB is 9. So if I pick up, I score a 9 for 9. But it gets worse: suppose I’m lying 9 with a long putt ahead. I can pick up OR I can choose to try to hole it, earning a 10 for 8. So I get a net 8 for the "money game" but still post a max NDB 9 for GHIN. (Obviously, there’s a point of diminishing returns, where actual strokes for the hole less my handicap strokes are more than my max NDB.) Confused yet? I can guarantee the players will be! Many don’t even know their NDB for each hole. And some local courses we play haven’t set up hole-by-hole posting, so the GHIN scores could be messed up, too. 🤦🏻
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Thanks for your response. We have played this way for years: original max was 10, then double par, and now NDB, since the WHS instituted it. Our new League Board is comprised of our mid-level handicappers, who feel giving strokes when the ball is not holed is unfair and favors the high handicappers. The NEW rule is: FOR THE PURPOSES OF OUR MONEY GAMES, IF YOU PICK UP BEFORE HOLING THE BALL—EVEN AT MAX NET DOUBLE BOGEY—NO HANDICAP STROKES WILL BE AWARDED FOR THAT HOLE. (Scores for posting continue to follow WHS guidelines.) Our local pros are adamant in their opinions that anything involving money must be HOLED OUT, and claim that pace of play is not adversely affected—which supports the Board's position. The Board also cites adherence to USGA rules as the reason for the change, but I can’t find this exact scenario anywhere… Happy New Year from the Lowcountry of South Carolina, where we played golf in sunny 80 degree weather!
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Mistakes in Tournament Scoring and Payouts
Southern by Choice replied to Southern by Choice's topic in Golf Talk
Unfortunately, no published rules…but our policy has been that GROSS is better than NET if you placed the same in both categories. So in your example, our 3rd place golfer would would rank in the GROSS column. But in this case, my 5th place Gross is nothing compared to 1st place Net! And as you can guess from my 28 HI, I don’t win very often. -
I played in a two-day RINGERS Tournament (sometimes called an ECLECTIC Format). The results were tabulated by the President of the league, and winners and payouts were announced at our year-end luncheon. (Winners can be in one category only—not both NET and GROSS.) But WHOOPS—the results were wrong! She went through all the GROSS scores first, and assigned 1st-5th place winners. Then she took all remaining players and assigned 1st-5th place for NET…which skewed the results. For example, I had an 87 GROSS (remember, it’s RINGERS, selecting the best score on each hole over two rounds) with a 59 NET. The 87 put me in 5th place for Gross, but FIRST place for Net. Now for the question: how to best handle this? My husband plays in a Men's League, and when any errors are discovered after payouts, they say "MONEY PAYOUTS STAND, BUT HERE ARE THE REVISED WINNERS FOR 'BRAGGING' RIGHTS." (There’s not a lot of money involved in our case—probably less than $50 difference from 1st to 5th place.). WHAT SAY YOU?
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General question: WHAT IS THE TOTAL YARDAGE BEING PLAYED IN THE SOLHEIM CUP? I have read "6902 yards," but it’s not clear to me that’s the yardage the women are actually playing. If so, it’s roughly equivalent to the men's Gold Tees. Right?
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Fair but Speedy Tournament Play
Southern by Choice replied to Southern by Choice's topic in Member Outings & Meetups
The USGA stat you reference says rounds with a score "reduced to a net double bogey" rarely count in the best 8 for handicap purposes. However, most people I know post only total scores for the round, HAVING ALREADY ADJUSTED THE MAX PER HOLE TO NDB. So the number of NDB scores used for handicap purposes wouldn’t be immediately evident to the USGA. For clarification, I started this thread with questions about weekly LEAGUE play. When playing in actual tournaments, it’s usual for us to hole out—no max before picking up. -
Fair but Speedy Tournament Play
Southern by Choice replied to Southern by Choice's topic in Member Outings & Meetups
Au contraire! Even my "better scores" are sprinkled with net double bogeys…although I’m kinda embarrassed to admit it. A 7 or 8 on a par 4 is pretty common for me, even in my "top 8" scores that count. -
Fair but Speedy Tournament Play
Southern by Choice replied to Southern by Choice's topic in Member Outings & Meetups
I absolutely agree with your comments about the causes of slow play! I kept stats for a year, noting winners and pay-outs in order to convince our members of the truth of what I said. Some still weren’t happy: "I'M A BETTER PLAYER AND IT'S ONLY RIGHT THAT I SHOULD WIN MORE MONEY!" The whole "that’s why we have handicaps" argument was lost on them, and I think they will be happier playing in SCRATCH competition only. -
Fair but Speedy Tournament Play
Southern by Choice replied to Southern by Choice's topic in Member Outings & Meetups
I’m not sure I understand. Because the WHS automatically adjusts posted scores to reflect NET DOUBLE BOGEY, the handicap is "baked in." Did I misunderstand? -
Fair but Speedy Tournament Play
Southern by Choice replied to Southern by Choice's topic in Member Outings & Meetups
"A 30 handicap player gets to hdcp hole 1 (lets say its a par 4), and they send 2 OB off the tee. They don't even bother playing after that because they can't make better than net DB. Their competitor is an 18 handicap, and they also stink it up on this hole, knocking their first OB, then finding tree trouble. They punch out for their 4th, and play a really good shot on for their 5th, but it doesn't go in the hole, so they have a putt for their net +1. It lips out and they tap in (or pick up the gimmie range putt) for their net DB We get to hdcp hole 15, a reasonably easy short par 4. The 30 handicap scores a rare par on this hole for a -2 net, and sits net even through these 2 holes. The 18 handicap also pars for a net -1, and sits net +1 throughthese 2 holes." I'm so glad to see a response to this topic! Thanks for taking the time to reply. A correction to the above scenario: On the 15th handicapped hole, your hacker gets only ONE stroke, not 2. (One stroke for all 18 holes and two strokes for the twelve hardest holes. Since this is the 15th hardest hole, she only gets 1 stroke.) Both players card the same scores for both holes, given our max rules: 8 and 4. 12 gross for both players, less 2 or 3 strokes respectively. The net outcome is 10 vs. 9, and our high handicapper has the NET advantage, just as you said. However, remember our league pays both NET and GROSS winners. And while a blowup hole is certainly possible, I know very few 18-handicappers who shoot QUAD BOGIES with any regularity; if they did, their HI would be much higher! And so, over time, the better players do win the LOW GROSS prizes while the weaker players battle it out for NET money. ⛳️⛳️ -
I won't squawk much about the IMMEDIATE effect of the ESR; it’s the LONGTERM impact it has by creating a false "Low Handicap Index" that sticks around for a whole year…and becomes the anchor for the soft and hard caps. In March 2020, my HI was 37.2. ONE MONTH LATER, IT WAS 25.0: DOWN 12.2 strokes after posting 16 scores. I had posted a flurry of very good scores, and I was ecstatic! Then the ESR kicked in—and is CUMULATIVE, BTW. ALL of the 20 most recent scores are reduced by 1 or 2 strokes (depending on how far below the differential) EACH TIME an exceptional score was posted. Ultimately, my HI dropped to 23.7 before my overall game tanked and scores began to climb. The effect of those very good scores began to drop off over time as I unfortunately reverted to my prior game. 🙁 Then the Soft Cap kicked in, slowing the upward movement of my handicap…and then the Hard Cap completely halted the upward movement of my Index when it reached 28.7. The Hard Cap froze my index at 28.7 for four months, while I continued to struggle, playing regularly and posting my scores. During that time, my ACTUAL handicap hovered around 32, calculated on my best 8 of the previous 20…but of course I was stuck at 28.7. It's hard to admit these details in such a public golfers' forum, but I’m frustrated by the lack of understanding about the impact of these WHS rules! I EARNED a handicap of 32, and it’s ludicrous that I should lose 3 or 4 handicap strokes because of a system designed to thwart a few cheaters.
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You’re right…as I asserted earlier. Gentlemen, I’ve been living with this stupid system of hard caps and soft caps for more than a year now. And it is exacerbated by the Exceptional Score Reduction, which yanks the Low Handicap Index into ridiculously unsustainable levels…and then cements them in place with the aforementioned caps! I’m a high-handicapper with some wild swings in my scores. If my HI was allowed to float in keeping with my 8 best most recent scores (or 10 best, as in the previous system), it would be a more accurate snapshot of my skills. The WHS attempted to "fix" the problem of sandbagging in competition, and the recreational golfer like me was collateral damage.
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Huh-uh. The soft cap suppresses only UPWARD movement of your Handicap Index…at least as far as I can determine. The WHS is happy to see our handicaps go DOWN.
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I’m President of a Women's Golf League and am planning our upcoming League Championship. I want to keep things fair while avoiding a 5-hour round. CAN WE SET A MAXIMUM NUMBER OF STROKES PER HOLE AND STILL BE FAIR TO ALL PLAYERS? —There will be both NET and GROSS winners. —We currently set max strokes/hole at net double bogey for regular League play. —Our members can play to a maximum 38 course handicap. We have a handful of players with HI's in the 'teens; most are mid-to-high 20s, some are in the 30s, but there’s clearly a wide range of abilities. —The lower handicappers think net bogey max favors the HIGH handicappers, since they can pick up and record a score of 9 on a par 5...when they might actually have needed more strokes to actually hole out. I think it is painful and slow to have to hole everything out when a player is struggling with their 12th or 13th stroke...and it happens, of course. While this is a competitive league, we are also supposed to enjoy ourselves—something unlikely to happen after a 5-hour round in 95-degree weather. I believe the better players will win the gross rounds, and that picking up after net double bogey will not appreciably affect results for net winners. What say you?
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Stop Aiming at the Flag!!! #DeadCenter
Southern by Choice replied to david_wedzik's topic in Instruction and Playing Tips
I’ve just reread some of the posts in this thread. It reminded me of an article I read when I first started playing six years ago, "HOW TO BREAK 100." One particular tip has stuck with me because it was funny and very accurate. "AIM FOR THE MIDDLE OF THE GREEN. YOU'RE NOT THAT GOOD!" So true! 🥴 -
Mauricio, you are probably much better informed than I since you act as a RATER. (I tried taking the online course to become certified as a Course Rater but I couldn’t stick with it. Congratulations to you!) Our new tees are being added as part of the USGA and LPGA's "Play It Forward" initiative, instituted to be more in keeping with the drive yardage and swing speed of the "typical" female golfer. Pretty exciting stuff! It will give more opportunities for pars and birdies for women, senior women, junior players and new golfers. I’m looking forward to trying them out on occasion!