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Of course the full shot is the most difficult skill. It covers a greater distance than almost any putt. The ability to physically putt the ball is relatively easy for most. It's the skill of getting the ball in the hole that is difficult. And once you are on the green, one has the opportunity to turn two strokes into one (the hot putter). Doesn't happen very often that can be done from the fairway.
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That';s the point. If you run into a hot putter, it's trouble. The emphasis in these discussions seems to be on something that is measurable. Broadie admits he can't measure why someone's putter gets hot (he uses the phrase streaky), although he's trying, and he does admit that is the formula for winning amongst ball strikers of similar talent. You mentioning your 17 cap buddy gets hot and throws darts to the greens only conflates the issue. In the context of my statement regarding putting, it is in relation to similar ball striking skills, Thus, the ability to score ultimately ends with the putter. And in this particular discussion, the emphasis seems to be placed on the professional game. Of course those players are superior ball strikers. I didn't need Broadies work to tell me that.
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I don't disagree with any of that. In fact, the most important shot is the one before you. So yes, the shot that gets one on the green, if that's the shot before you, than it absolutely is the most important shot. That's also why I said putting is king, as it almost always is the last shot you hit on a hole, and can make up for mistakes made with prior shots. There's no right or wrong, it just is. And I still stand by my other statement, that a hot putter is trouble. I'm about to go find out who has the hot putter today. Hope it's me or my partner.
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The mob mentality around here is fascinating. First of all, a comment I made in another thread was cut and pasted into this thread, a four year old thread, as some sort of red meat for the membership. My original comment in this thread began with "I don't dispute Broadies work at the professional level". StuM disagrees that it applies at the amateur level as well, I'm not so sure. When asked to provide evidence about Broadie conceding a hot putter is the the one who typically wins, which I did, it was immediately foo-fooed. Broadie literally said "Winners are the best putters, out of the best ballstikers (not always true, but a great summary of the main formula for winning)". That means that in the end, the best putter tends tends to be the winner. Said another way, "The difference between earning a top-10 and winning is complementing that great ball striking with a hot putting week." Broadie knows the hot putter is a real thing, he just hasn't developed a good metric yet. He uses PCV and arrives at 35%. of scoring comes from putting. The other 65% comes from tee shots, approach shots and short game shots. So, 35% of your score comes once you are on the green. When you look at it that way, according to Broadie, the single category of putting (35%) is responsible for more than any other one single area of the game percentage wise, as the other 65% includes every other aspect of your game. I've never said being a great ball striker isn't the most important skill and I also said, in the context of the amateur, "the ability to hit shots from inside 100 yards and to not three putt is where they will truly lower their scores" . While I believe you have to be a great ball striker to make it to the big show, in fact, I've never actually identified the most important skill as it obviously is individual dependent. I did say "putting is king" in reference to encountering a hot putter, or being the hot putter, in the context that is typically who wins the match or the round that day. I wasn't talking about a season or a career. I could care less who defines what as the most important skill. To those of you who think a hot putter is only an outlier, I wish you well in your games.
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Which is why I clarified in another thread that my "hot putter" comment was in the context of match play. You're talking about a four day professional medal play tournament. Two/Four players of equal ball striking skill, in matchplay, and the hot putter is king. I don't know why that freaks out so many around here. What's perplexing is I get bashed for not having evidence and then I'm asked to provide it and there it is, Broadie"s words, in black and white. Nope, we'll tell you what he's saying, even when he literally says "the best putter". Golf on the course for the average am isn't a game of Strat-O-Matic using professional statistics. Stats are nice, but go ahead, have your fifteen 15 cap spend the majority of their time on long irons and woods. Their ball striking will eventually reach it's peak, including distance, and very rarely would it be close to "scratch" worthy. The average USGA handicap index for ams at 14.1 completely supports this. The 15 cap who spends the majority of their time on 100 yards and in and putting is more likely to save more strokes and beat them more often than not. Exactly. Of course any knowledgeable golfer would want a pro to hit the longer shot over the shorter shot. No one wants the 15 cap to chunk the 10 yard green side chip/pitch either.
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I know exactly what it says and I know the context. The best part is, I said the "hot putter", he says the "best putter". Even you said " the best putter of those ten will likely get you the win" Best putter of the best ball strikers wins. What do you think that means to the average am in the Saturday foursome? I know.
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I don't dispute Broadie's assessment at the pro level. Also, it's in relation to money earned, which means if you're long off the tee, you're going to have a better chance at outscoring a shorter player over the course of 72 professional holes. So while your chances improve at winning, you still may not win, but you place higher so more money earned over a season. Even Broadie conceded a hot putter is what ultimately wins, it's just hard to predict and isn't as consistent as distance off the tee and long irons/woods. Now take your typical 12-15 cap amateur. They may already be capped at a certain distance level, often less than 250 yards, due to physical ability, age, etc. Sure, they may gain some length and accuracy off the tee with practice and technology, but the ability to hit shots from inside 100 yards and to not three putt is where they will truly lower their scores. Again, if you can't put the ball in the fairway off the tee with driver, you obviously need to work on that, but the majority of par 4's and 5's for amateurs are reachable off the tee in three with less than a driver/wood. So irons off the tee (ego be damned), play par/bogey golf, with maybe a birdie or two sprinkled in. Wow, all of a sudden the fifteen is an eight! As for Tiger, in his heyday he dominated the par 5's. Period. I did the research years ago and it was ridiculous, compared to the field, how many strokes he gained in a tournament on par 5's alone. It was something like 4-5 strokes per 72 hole tournament. He literally had a minimum 4 stroke advantage before teeing off. That's beyond "normal" and quite frankly not very useful data that an amateur should be using for any type of assessment of their game.
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Is There Any Non-Anecdotal AimPoint Data?
Alfonso replied to jshots's topic in Instruction and Playing Tips
Hilarious that I get a warning and posts removed, as if I'm the only one discussing "off topic" Weird place. I also see I have been given an avatar not of my choosing. Wow. It's like junior high around here. -
Alfonso changed their profile photo
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Is There Any Non-Anecdotal AimPoint Data?
Alfonso replied to jshots's topic in Instruction and Playing Tips
You are freaking me out. You just said putting is the least important skill. What? And please don't give me shit about being off topic. I'm not driving that bus. -
Is There Any Non-Anecdotal AimPoint Data?
Alfonso replied to jshots's topic in Instruction and Playing Tips
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I just spent more time than I ever should have and I could not find any reference ever made as to "drive for show, putt for dough". Wtf? -
Is There Any Non-Anecdotal AimPoint Data?
Alfonso replied to jshots's topic in Instruction and Playing Tips
I had to go back to my original post to check this. Claiming my curiosity is disingenuous seems a bit unfair but we also don't know each other so there's that. Perhaps the worst thing I said about Aimpoint: "Where's the data? Does Aimpoint have it? Doubt it. Never seen it published. A 10 might putt as well as a 5 on any given day, no matter the method. Go ahead, google it, if they had winners, it would be all over the place. " So I ask for the data, and I get the above. Geez man. You literally said you're not at liberty to "share that info specifically". I don't know why Aimpoint wouldn't be blaring that information at the top of the mountain, but whatever. Don't know where to go from here. Not against aimpoint at all, can see the merit for some, others maybe not. I will continue to seek the hard data. -
Is There Any Non-Anecdotal AimPoint Data?
Alfonso replied to jshots's topic in Instruction and Playing Tips
That is certainly a lot of accusations. As for answering your questions, this quote, which I posted earlier, answered them all as far as I'm concerned: From Aimpoint instructorTyson Deskins: "The biggest reason to use Aimpoint Express is because it helps you feel confident about your read and commit to it more often. " I've already conceded that I understand that component. People do a lot of things because it gives them confidence. As for Rory, just wondered if anyone who was an aimpoint disciple knew why he didn't embrace the technique. And yes, even though you may not like it, it is evidence for a professional who tried it and chooses not to use it. So either he wasn't able to understand and apply the physics or it just didn't give him enough confidence. As for my quote that putting is king, I will stand by that as long as I play golf. Now, I play almost exclusively non-handicapped match play, so my perspective may be slanted in that regard. Hot putter in match play makes up for a lot of mistakes and is trouble. Period. 15 caps don't lower their handicap because they can hit every third 2 iron flush. They lower it by getting to the green in three at worst on par fours and by eliminating penalty strokes, chunks/blades and three putts. Good putting makes up for the first two mistakes. I do have to chuckle a bit at the idea that we are discussing, some quite passionately, a technique for better green reading all the while putting is being dismissed as not so important. -
Is There Any Non-Anecdotal AimPoint Data?
Alfonso replied to jshots's topic in Instruction and Playing Tips
Actually, I was encouraged to do some research and that's exactly what I did. You and others are making a giant assumption that I am looking to dismiss it. As for Rory, what's the answer? Did it just not work for him. As in, it's a fact it may also not work for others who might actually putt better not using Aimpoint? And I'm baffled as to where you got 12 seconds to make that read. At least not on Keegan's part. The clock is running right on the screen. Now I understand no one is making every four foot putt, but that entire shtick was painful to watch and I'm not really sure how I feel about Aimpoint.