Swing Video (Update)

**$2 Nassau** · July 14, 2008

Originally put my swing on video about 5 weeks ago. Just took an updated video (just with the Driver down the line - other angles to come soon hopefully). Camera angles are slight different, the most recent vid has a better down the line view than the original vid.

Been working on a better set up (not so close to the ball, better spine angle), alignment, better swing plane. Also trying to maintain spine angle throughout the swing and right knee flex, this has been tough for me!! I tend to dip my head to start the downswing, then of course I have to stand up a little to keep myself from getting cramped up and jammed at impact.

Getting there but still needs work. Although, overall my ballstriking has been better than ever with the small progress that I have made so I'm very encouraged. Scoring much better lately as well. Hopefully in another month or so I can take a new video with more progess.

(most recent vid) Driver - DTL -7/11/08

http://www.swingacademy.com/swingana...l.aspx?id=1270

(original video) Driver - DTL - 6/8/08

http://www.swingacademy.com/swingana...l.aspx?id=1040

**MPS67** · July 14, 2008

I agree with you. You do look very jammed at impact. I can see that you're pulling your elbows into your body while straightening up your knees to a vertical position with no spine tilt and little shoulder tilt.

Do you think that you're addressing the ball too close?

From the top, you may be rotating your shoulders back too soon.

Furthermore, it's difficult to examine without a front on view, but it looks as though there is little, to no forward weight shift with your lower body.

**Dent** · July 14, 2008

I actually found your original looking better than your updated.

**$2 Nassau** · July 14, 2008

What you can't see from the older vid (due to bad camera angle) is how much I take the club to the inside on the takeaway. Just bringing the club a little straighter back has helped quite a bit with consistency, even with all the other flaws.

**Dent** · July 14, 2008

What you can't see from the older vid (due to bad camera angle) is how much I take the club to the inside on the takeaway. Just bringing the club a little straighter back has helped quite a bit with consistency, even with all the other flaws.

Your finish on the original looks alot more complete than the updated as well. Not sure if It was just that video you did the finish where you let the club hang over your back or if you do that continually now.

**$2 Nassau** · July 14, 2008

I agree with you. You do look very jammed at impact. I can see that you're pulling your elbows into your body while straightening up your knees to a vertical position with no spine tilt and little shoulder tilt.

No I don't think I am too close to the ball right now, previously - yes a little.

For some reason I just can't drill it through my head to maintain that spine angle - which I'm sure would improve my impact position. I guess it's just something I have ingrained into my swing over the past 4 years and will probably take some hard work to correct. The weight shift thing has been certainly been an issue. I used to be a really bad swayer with tons weight shift out over the ball causing all kinds of problems. I think I overcorrected it by really subscribing to, and exaggerating the "turn in a barrel" thought. So now I'm trying to start the downswing with a little more of a hip bump to get the weight forward. In the first vid I was flat footed throughout the whole swing...the second vid shows that my back heel comes off the ground...maybe a little too early but I can live with it b/c at least I'm getting some weight to my front foot, even if it's minimal. Thanks for the feedback guys.

**$2 Nassau** · July 14, 2008

Your finish on the original looks alot more complete than the updated as well. Not sure if It was just that video you did the finish where you let the club hang over your back or if you do that continually now.

Dent - that's funny you noticed that, very observant. I noticed that myself. For some reason lately my club goes to that normal finish position and then kind of whips back over my head. Can't explain it.

I'd like to say it's because I'm generating more speed through the ball.

**whip_it_out** · July 14, 2008

the only thing i noticed was the lack of movement in the lower body.
I know everyone has heard this, but starting the downswing with a little weight shift to the lef, and then pulling your upper body through by un coiling your hips does wonder for consistency. your hips look square at impact, but take a look at some pros videos. you can see all of the back left pocket.

turning your hips also creates alot of room for your hands to come through the ball. It could helped the jammed impact position.

**m11** · July 15, 2008

the only thing i noticed was the lack of movement in the lower body.

If consistency is the goal, i'm going to respectfully disagree with you whip_it_out. Starting with your hips is definitely a move that pro's utilize. That is no doubt. Thats a component of what allows Tiger to go 330 on his drives. However, that is the exact same move that puts them 40 yards off the fairway. Starting with your hips leaves you succeptable to a lot of timing issues. Generally, those who do not have a developed and consistent swing already will end up dipping their shoulders and not keeping their chest in the proper position at impact if they try to get their swing going with their hips. Also lateral movement usually occurs which causes all sorts of mistakes. I like to think of exploding your hips as an advanced power move. If you are able to properly turn your shoulders, and you have already great timing with your drive, and are able to consistently hit the ball straight...then it is time to start trying out the 'power moves'. Until then, i think it is best to get a full coil, then start the swing with the hands...bringing them in on the inside and dropping them into the slot and allowing momentum and the uncoiling of the shoulder turn to take your through impact and into a balanced finish.

**MPS67** · July 15, 2008

Until then, i think it is best to get a full coil, then start the swing with the hands...

bringing them in on the inside and dropping them into the slot and allowing momentum and the uncoiling of the shoulder turn to take your through impact and into a balanced finish.

m11, I don't know.

I see it the other way. IMHO, it's less of a timing issue if you allow your lower body (whether it's your hips, legs, knees, etc) to pull down the connected hands, arms & upper torso. When you reach the top, your torso is coiled, stretched, or taught; which ever term you'd like to use. Any small amount of movement by the lower body in the CCW/forward direction will have the effect on pulling the upper body down. Once partially down, the golfer can activate the upper torso and shoulders in an aggressive pivot motion, and a powerful and accelerated release will occur. If executed correctly, the golfer will not cast or release his or her wrists early and jeopardized their swing with a premature wrist flip, a fat shot, or a skulled shot.

**$2 Nassau** · July 15, 2008

I think having the hands over-involved in the swing with no hip rotation is what got me into that cramped, wrist-flipping impact position in the first place.

There is a lot of timing involved, you have to dip, raise back up and flip the hands all with perfect timing to get the ball on line. Sure - when my timing is on it works, and I can actually hit the ball pretty far at times. But when you are off, even just a little, it makes for a long day.

**whip_it_out** · July 15, 2008

If consistency is the goal, i'm going to respectfully disagree with you whip_it_out. Starting with your hips is definitely a move that pro's utilize. That is no doubt. Thats a component of what allows Tiger to go 330 on his drives. However, that is the exact same move that puts them 40 yards off the fairway. Starting with your hips leaves you succeptable to a lot of timing issues. Generally, those who do not have a developed and consistent swing already will end up dipping their shoulders and not keeping their chest in the proper position at impact if they try to get their swing going with their hips. Also lateral movement usually occurs which causes all sorts of mistakes. I like to think of exploding your hips as an advanced power move. If you are able to properly turn your shoulders, and you have already great timing with your drive, and are able to consistently hit the ball straight...then it is time to start trying out the 'power moves'. Until then, i think it is best to get a full coil, then start the swing with the hands...bringing them in on the inside and dropping them into the slot and allowing momentum and the uncoiling of the shoulder turn to take your through impact and into a balanced finish.

Starting from the ground up doesnt cause inconsistency issues. It positions the club in the "slot" and helps hold lag. If it caused lack of consistency, im positive almost every, if not all, pros wouldnt do it. When you were talking about tiger, yes it does give him the 330 yard bombs, but not the 4o yard right shot. He gets those from his lower body out racing his upper body, and that leaves his hands unable to suare the club face at impact. And he has openly said that. The dipping of the shoulders, and lateral movement(lateral movement is just a false movement, sliding,not turning)is not caused directly caused by turning the hips first. Yes, you will leave the upper body behind if you dont turn those as well, but that would be the mistake. Not turning the hips. You dont have to whip through the ball with all you've got to start with you hips, look at Ernie Els, for example, his swing is smooth, but the lower body starts the swing. His is just in a more controlled, smoother action then tigers. To the person who started the thread, seek out a qualified instructor to analyze your swing, and he will give you answers that none of us can.

**m11** · July 16, 2008

I mightve miss-represented what i meant by starting the swing with the hands. The direction i was going with is that if you arent consistent with coming in from the inside, whatever move you likely make will be compensatory, and you wont be able to develop consistency.

By getting your hands situated to come in from the inside, you allow your hips and shoulders to pull your arms, and as a unit, go through impact and into a finish. You certainly do not want to hinder shoulder and hip turn. We all know that is a tremendous component of the golf swing. With 'hands first', im suggesting using that moment between backswing and forward swing to remember to get your hands going inside. Right after that millisecond moment, you certainly want to allow your hips and shoulders to fire and pull your arms through impact. All that turn though is useless if your swing path is off. Mainly though, I notice a lot of golfers with athletic ability doing what whip_it_out said. Golfers who are able to really rotate their hips hard forget that they need their hands to move with their shoulders in unison. They frequently out-race their upper body leading to exactly what whip it out said...an un squared clubface and an errant shot. If tiger wanted to really dial it down and hit a 270 yard drive, he'd likely hit it straight nearly every time. And i feel that thats the type of swing that average golfers should be making. I'm certainly not suggesting that the creator of this thread cannot make a Tiger-like move at the ball, simply suggesting that getting solid contact comes before power, and that if you are looking to get the ball going straight, you need not focus on creating huge lag and going nuts with your hip turns. Simply put, being concerned with getting the hips moving quickly may cause you to forget to get your hands going in the right direction...and thus bring you in over the top. By thinking hands first then hips, you can still get that huge uncoiling of your body, but at the same time have your hands going in the right direction

**m11** · July 16, 2008

Starting from the ground up doesnt cause inconsistency issues. It positions the club in the "slot" and helps hold lag. If it caused lack of consistency, im positive almost every, if not all, pros wouldnt do it.

One more thing, i certainly agree with the ground up concept and how it helps create lag. However, either way you put it, the arms and shoulders are separate from the hips and can be left behind if you dont have an instructor present helping you with your timing. Also, if thinking ground up gets you in the slot, then certainly that's the thought process you should have. Thats the way the swing should be taught as well. However, if you are coming in over the top, you clearly are not getting into the slot. When thats the case, i would suggest actively thinking get your hands in the slot for that millisecond before your hips and shoulders turn. It really isn't a move, its more of a short thought to have right before you begin your downswing. And again, i'm not saying that you should swing with your arms more than your hands...which is what i feel you are thinking that i'm getting at. Simply if you are going over the top, think get your hands in the slot before you turn with your hips.

**obsessedgolfer** · July 16, 2008

do you slice or fade the ball alot because your swilngplane looks vey upright?

**whip_it_out** · July 16, 2008

And again, i'm not saying that you should swing with your arms more than your hands...which is what i feel you are thinking that i'm getting at. Simply if you are going over the top, think get your hands in the slot before you turn with your hips.

Yes you are right, thats what i believe you were saying, but i feel trying to manipulate the hands at the top of the swing can create more problems than it can help. It is, in my mind easier to get the club started on the inside if you start with the lower body. We are saying the same thing, get the club on a good plane, but both suggesting to do it different ways, and the starter of this thread can try both and use the one that feels and works best. And others having the same problem can do the same, or better yet seek out someone who is certified to help.

**m11** · July 16, 2008

Yes you are right, thats what i believe you were saying, but i feel trying to manipulate the hands at the top of the swing can create more problems than it can help. It is, in my mind easier to get the club started on the inside if you start with the lower body.

yep. definitely agree. but just to further clarify a little to others, you dont want to actually move your hands once they get to the top...'hands first' i suppose is a misleading phrase...the idea is just to actively think 'get your hands to the inside'. you dont want to actually move them at the top of your swing. but yea, besides that whip it out....yea..we are basically saying the same thing.

**Trevor07Silvy** · July 16, 2008

Awesome, a guy with the same problem as me. Glad I'm not the only one. It is extremely tough for me to keep my spine angle maintained throughout the shot, I'm sure you would agree. Avid Golfer knows his stuff when it comes to the golf swing. I have had him analyze my videos on swing academy and it has helped me a ton. Although I am still struggling at maintaining spine angle, the other things he has told me, have worked out for the better. I just think being able to maintain my spine angle will take some time. Just stick with, I know it can be frustrating, and definately listen to what Avid Golfer has to say.

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Swing Video (Update)

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