Jump to content
billchao

My Swing (billchao)

1,024 posts / 87669 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

I've been Playing Golf for: 4 years

My current handicap index or average score is: 17

My typical ball flight is: High Fade

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Push Fade/Slice


Videos:

Hit a bunch of straight fades this morning on the driving range, so I made an adjustment by adding an active arm swing later at home:

Sorry, no FO at the range because I forgot to charge my camera battery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Ok so the path is across the ball causing you the issues with the slice/fade.  Doesn't really have anything to do with how active or not active your hands are.

I would recommend having more weight forward on the downswing to help with the path issues.  Better transfer will have the hips and shoulders less open and "lay" the shaft down.

Notice the difference in the left knee flex.  More info on that http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_791160

Again note the difference in left knee flex/weight transfer and how it can effect the alignment of the shaft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Ok so the path is across the ball causing you the issues with the slice/fade.  Doesn't really have anything to do with how active or not active your hands are.

I would recommend having more weight forward on the downswing to help with the path issues.  Better transfer will have the hips and shoulders less open and "lay" the shaft down.

Notice the difference in the left knee flex.  More info on that http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_791160

Again note the difference in left knee flex/weight transfer and how it can effect the alignment of the shaft.

Thanks, Mike. I always thought my path problems had to do with my hips clearing too fast and my arms weren't syncing up properly. I knew my left knee straightened too early, but I never thought it was a weight forward issue. I'll definitely get working on it.

On another note, do you think my backswing is a little long? It looks on video that I stand up a bit right at the end, would that be a source of some consistency problems?

Great swing analysis...worth the price of admission,, very nice

A bargain at twice the price! I always wanted to sign up for Evolvr, but money is a little tight right now, so I have to settle for this. Good thing these guys are willing to take time out of their days to help us bums out, for which I am extremely grateful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On another note, do you think my backswing is a little long? It looks on video that I stand up a bit right at the end, would that be a source of some consistency problems?

It is a little long but the head is pretty steady, just don't think it's the priority right now.  I think if you cleaned it up, it wouldn't help the downswing all that much.  I think when you make a change or a tweak it needs to have an immeditae positive effect on impact, the weight transfer is going to give you the most bang for your buck.   Yes the backswing is on the list of things to improve but not #1 right now IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It is a little long but the head is pretty steady, just don't think it's the priority right now.  I think if you cleaned it up, it wouldn't help the downswing all that much.  I think when you make a change or a tweak it needs to have an immeditae positive effect on impact, the weight transfer is going to give you the most bang for your buck.   Yes the backswing is on the list of things to improve but not #1 right now IMO

Ok, thanks, Mike. I won't worry about it then. Here is a video of me from this afternoon, working on the downswing:

I'm swinging past where Erik was on the 5SK video, but I think I'm getting it right? The last swing is a full swing with the new feel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

New range session = new videos! I started hooking and drawing them again, thanks Mike! Only missed maybe 10% right, still need to work on it.

I thought I was doing well based on the flight at the range, but as I watch the videos, I don't really see much of a difference. Club is still pointed inside of the ball and my elbows are still behind me. Looks like I dropped the hands a bit more and kept my hips from spinning out, but I still have to flatten out the downswing more. Definitely still have to get the weight forward more. The flaws look much more prominent in the driver swing - explains why I've been avoiding that club for a while.

6i DTL:

6i FO:

Driver DTL:

Driver FO:

I'm not very tech-savvy, so I apologize for making four separate videos. One of these days, I have to learn to edit them together (or even in slow motion - fancy).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I like your swing...looks good..just play more

Thanks. I'd love to play more, but I can't, so I'll devote my time to improving my swing. Mishits and those big push fades really make it hard to score when I do get out though. I know I can improve there.

I remember a few years ago, I played three rounds a week with a worse swing and I scored better, so I know I can benefit from simply playing more often. Unfortunately, golf is a game that requires money and commitment, and I have a lot more of the latter than the former.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

New range session today. Tried a couple of different feels I've been working on all week. Hit mostly draws and overdraws, with a few fades as misses. Definitely seeing progress in the flight of the shots, though the changes in my actual swing are subtle.

Gonna try something new for analysis this week, so I made pictures. I may not have improved much in golfing, but at least my computer skills are getting better.

A1: Posture looks good DTL. I feel like I'm closer to the ball, so I'm standing taller, which allows me to round out that upper back (more posterior tilt). I strengthened my grip slightly from last week. My theory was that it would help with my right elbow action (it did a bit, but more on that later). Also tried to feel my lower center more forward, but I didn't notice much of a change there. I think I'll push the handle forward a bit more next time.

A2: Early wrist set. Took the club back way inside. Needs work. Less forearm rotation, or hinging of the wrists, I forget which, but I'll mess around with it until I figure it out.

A3: I need more hip turn, or at least to turn faster. This is pretty much it for lower body action; from here I just lift up my arms. Definitely need to work on this. Something else going on here because I'm way past 90° on the club to left arm angle. I believe it has to do with too much right wrist hinge. Right elbow looks solid here; I credit that to the grip change. It allowed me to pull my elbow more into my body in the takeaway as opposed to off to the side.

A4: Disaster. I watched the swing frame by frame, and from A3 to A4 I literally just lift up my arms until I hit this ridiculous position. I believe it was 12 frames at 60 FPS, so 0.2s of my swing is wasted motion.

A5: Need more pitch elbow. Shaft still too steep. Weight forward looks much better than before. Hip action still seems too fast, though. I've seen a lot of pros at A5 and their hips are definitely more closed at this point. Shaft angle problem persists, but I think it may have to do with my sequencing issues (from lifting my arms so high earlier).

A6: It's a hair past parallel at this point, but I think it still tells a decent picture. Clubhead would have been pretty much lined up with my hands, so a definite improvement there. Clubface looks slightly closed here, but the shot was a push-overdraw, so I'm not that concerned with it. Probably just open the club a hair at address. Hips are already in their impact or post impact position, not good there.

A7: Furyk-like. This is not the place to incorporate a Jim Furyk feeling.

Why can't this be my A4? This is my A3.5 position. Must stop swinging here.

I could probably get my weight more forward, but it's going to be hard to do without throwing my upper center towards the target as well. I'm going to keep working on that preset lower center forward feeling.

I also think that the overswing is seriously wrecking havoc on my sequencing. It feels like I have a two plane backswing with an one plane downswing. I believe that if I can keep the arms from lifting up, I'll be able to get my arms more in front of me as opposed to the side (more pitch elbow) and the arm swing will sync up more with the hip action. I'll film some 3/4 swings later to test my theory.

Takeaways: Need more weight forward, shorter backswing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Very dramatic change in your swing since the first one. I agree, nice swing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

A2: Early wrist set. Took the club back way inside. Needs work. Less forearm rotation, or hinging of the wrists, I forget which, but I'll mess around with it until I figure it out.

I wouldn't worry too much about the club being inside the hands, I think this is mostly camera angle.  Camera needs to be more down your stance line IMO  The leading edge isn't "toe up" so there isn't too much rolling going on.

Why can't this be my A4? This is my A3.5 position. Must stop swinging here.

I could probably get my weight more forward, but it's going to be hard to do without throwing my upper center towards the target as well. I'm going to keep working on that preset lower center forward feeling.

I also think that the overswing is seriously wrecking havoc on my sequencing. It feels like I have a two plane backswing with an one plane downswing. I believe that if I can keep the arms from lifting up, I'll be able to get my arms more in front of me as opposed to the side (more pitch elbow) and the arm swing will sync up more with the hip action. I'll film some 3/4 swings later to test my theory.

Just takes time.  Keep up the good work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Maybe I'll get good at this game after all.

I'll adjust the camera position next time. I reread the article http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing and realized where I made my mistake. Reading comprehension = fail. I guess the picture of the camera in the DTL position just stuck in my head so I thought it was supposed to be between my feet and the ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

A bit of regression today. Terrible left to right crosswind (headwind at times) at the range, so ball flight would have been sketchy, at best, but film clearly indicates that I was OTT. No face on footage because I put my camera away after my tripod blew over.

I was consciously feeling pp #5 with two goals in mind: keeping my right elbow more in front of me, and getting more pitch elbow. I think I did alright on the former, epic fail on the latter.

Looks like I didn't flare my right foot as much, so as a consequence, my hip turn was not as deep. I have to stay more on top of the changes I am making or I'll have more days like this.

I also don't think I rotate my arms enough going back. I noticed in Mike's Dufner Drill video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlqmh6U-DRw ) that his right hand is palm up in front of him in the "holding the tray" position. I deconstructed my backswing into the same right arm in front of me position and my right hand is at a 45° angle from his hand, in a position I am calling the "dumping the tray all over my left foot" position. I think more rotation will help keep me from crossing the line at the top, among other things.

Mike was right about my takeaway: it must have just been the camera angle. Thanks, Mike.

How do I get rid of this? Should I feel like I'm throwing my arms away from me? Or am holding on to pp #4 too long?

Takeaways: Pay attention to my setup. Rotate my forearms (slightly) more on the backswing. Swing down with my left arm (release PA #4) earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I was consciously feeling pp #5 with two goals in mind: keeping my right elbow more in front of me, and getting more pitch elbow. I think I did alright on the former, epic fail on the latter.

I actually this A4, if the goal is to get the right elbow a little more down and in front of the shirt seam, then you've made improvements.

A bit of regression today. Terrible left to right crosswind (headwind at times) at the range, so ball flight would have been sketchy, at best, but film clearly indicates that I was OTT. No face on footage because I put my camera away after my tripod blew over.

I was consciously feeling pp #5 with two goals in mind: keeping my right elbow more in front of me, and getting more pitch elbow. I think I did alright on the former, epic fail on the latter.

I also don't think I rotate my arms enough going back. I noticed in Mike's Dufner Drill video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlqmh6U-DRw) that his right hand is palm up in front of him in the "holding the tray" position. I deconstructed my backswing into the same right arm in front of me position and my right hand is at a 45° angle from his hand, in a position I am calling the "dumping the tray all over my left foot" position. I think more rotation will help keep me from crossing the line at the top, among other things.

Yeah just keep that same "pitch" feel on the downswing so the shaft can shallow more.  The right arm pitches and the right elbow will feel lower than the left at impact.  Make sure not to "pull" on the way down and get the right arm too narrow, more on that here.  Will also help with that last pic you posted.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I actually this A4, if the goal is to get the right elbow a little more down and in front of the shirt seam, then you've made improvements.

Sorry, I think I failed to articulate properly. I like the new A4, too. I did manage to get the right elbow more in front of me, which was what I was going for. Where I failed  was to retain that pitch elbow feeling into the downswing, which was what I meant when I posted the second picture.

Yeah just keep that same "pitch" feel on the downswing so the shaft can shallow more.  The right arm pitches and the right elbow will feel lower than the left at impact.  Make sure not to "pull" on the way down and get the right arm too narrow, more on that here.  Will also help with that last pic you posted.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing

It's definitely something I continuously work on; just hasn't bore fruit yet. I'm sure it will click one day.

I'm working on the theory now that I need to side bend more on my backswing. I noticed that my shoulders come way off the wall on the FO view. If I remember correctly, I think the issue is not enough side bend. I made the comparison to Grant Waite here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/54697/downswing-sequencing and you can see clearly that he stays "on the wall." I just feel like I'm missing one or two pieces and it'll all come together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I played a round today and did pretty well by my standards. I had more than a few "why can't I do that all the time" shots, so I'm definitely making some progress. I wanted to document the swing I used today, so here is the video:

I was incorporating a few different feels, here:

First, I felt like I was leaning towards the target on the backswing. I could swear my head was moving forward as I swung back, but it's clearly not the case. I think I could still use more right side extension, though.

Second, I felt like I was starting my takeaway with my left hand as opposed to my right. I wanted to rotate my hands more without too much wrist action. I didn't like the left hand feel so I'm going back to the right hand feel. I don't think it made any difference, anyway.

Finally, I wanted to shorten my backswing, and I managed to do that:

I felt like the top of my backswing was at A3, basically swinging just until my arms were parallel. The shorter backswing led to some tempo issues, so I'll have to work on that. Also looks like I forgot to squeeze pp #5 here.

Still need to work on the downswing. I just can't quite incorporate the proper move. Left arm stays too connected and my shoulder goes up too quickly:

Still have to work on that right elbow unfolding action. Lower body action isn't crazy ahead of my upper body though (still too far ahead), so that's a definite improvement. Impact is looking better, too:

Edit: Just wanted to add that my good shots today went "straight." It was hard to tell, but I'm guessing it was the slightest of push-fades. My misses were still right, so that's what I'm going with. Also, my divots were really short and shallow, like 3" long. Is that AoA related?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I was playing around with my grip just now, and apparently my hands are far enough apart that I can take the interlocking fingers apart and put them both around the club in the ten finger grip. So, essentially, I'm "faking" the interlock grip. I also have the club too much in the fingers of my left hand. This is probably why I have my right hand down so low, as my left hand is too perpendicular to the grip, making it uncomfortable to get the hands closer. Basically, the pressure from my bottom hand is directly on top of the joint in my left thumb instead of at the base of it.

I'm going to grip the club a bit more in the palm with my left hand so that I can get the right hand closer. I'm trying it out now, and I can already feel that my hands are more in sync with each other and there isn't so much of that delayed float loading feeling. I think this will help with my wrist action and improper lag action.

Now that I think about it, I think this was the first thing the pro showed me when I went to my very first lesson. Apparently, it never stuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Affiliates

    SuperSpeed
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo
  • Posts

    • I have seen this by playing with some very unusual golfers over the years. Guys that have what most would consider poor swings, but they know where the ball will go. They have some sort of deep competitive nature or want to score so bad. It is like they can score from sheer will power. Some of it might be ignorance. They don't know what they don't know and just get the ball in the cup. If they saw a video of their swing it might change their game/scores for the worse. I have seen a guy that would line up with body and shoulders maybe 30% to the right of the target line and consistently pull the shot maybe 10 degrees left of target. He would hit a lot of greens and was very competitive with his peers. Another hooded his club at address more than I have ever seen anybody. He would line up for a draw/hook that would be a low runner. He shot 2 over on the 9 holes we played. I worked so hard and concentrated so much to beat him by by one stroke. The most intense 9 holes ever for me. We were playing with 6 other of his regulars and they I know they all wanted him to beat me. I was not going to let the hunchback of Notre Dame beat me. (that is what he looked like in his set up and swing) I knew another guy who had a beautiful set of clubs and had started playing 3 years before. Not an athlete by any means and well into middle age. He shot a 92 with the most consistent slice I have ever witnessed. He stayed right on my heels through most of the round. Don't remember him ever losing a ball. He knew the distances on his clubs and knew where the ball would land and how it would roll. He would line up on the tee well to the left and most tee shots would land in the fairway. Maybe 200 to 210 yards. From a mental perspective he seemed a little like Moe Norman. If you tried to "straighten" out any of them with some instruction I would put money that they would never recover, LOL.
    • Yesterday my brother and I went out and played a course that we haven’t played since March. It’s a slightly easier course than my home course, so I was going into the round thinking I would easily shoot in the 80s. I didn’t, but I wasn’t that far off. I didn’t hit the ball great on the front, but was able to hang in there and shoot 46. Two highlights: •I chunked my tee shot on the par-5 fifth and didn’t even reach the dogleg, but I was still on the green in four. I rolled in my difficult six-footer for par. That was a confidence-builder, since I almost never play that hole well. •I had about 145 in on the ninth hole, off a slight downhill lie. 8I again to four feet. This may have been the best shot of the day (my approaches on 17 and 18 are also solid contenders), but I unfortunately missed the birdie putt. The back nine was better, and I actually walked to the seventeenth tee needing to birdie one of the last two holes to keep it under 90. Both were good opportunities, the 17th being a reachable par 5 (453 whites), the 18th a short par 4 (354 whites), but the seventeenth is the better chance. My drive wasn’t quite long enough to have a good shot at the green, so I laid up with a 3/4 9I (there’s a small pond about 100 yards short of the green), which left me about 135 yards into the wind. I decided to hit a knockdown 8I, and it came off perfectly and settled eight feet out, exactly pin-high. Grazed the edge with my birdie putt, which left me with a tap-in par. Although I wanted the birdie, I was satisfied, because I hit three good shots to give myself a legit birdie chance, and I hit a good putt. I wanted a three on the eighteenth hole, which would give me 89. My last drive found the last fairway, and I had about 140 to the pin. I went with the 8I again, full swing this time. As soon as I let it fly, I knew it was gonna be good. Twelve feet out. I knew I had another chance. However, I seemed to forget that putts from above the hole on this particular green tend to slide quite a bit if you missed it long. I had the line perfectly, but I gave it too much gas, and it rolled past and just kept on rolling until I had a longish par putt. I lined up my eight-foot par putt and missed it, so I tapped in for an ugly three-putt bogey to finish at 91. With the exception of that three-putt, I played the last two holes very well. For some reason during this round, and it’s not because of my fade, I had a tendency to lose my iron shots to the right, which was frustrating because that isn’t normal for me. I didn’t hit them poorly at all, I just pushed them a bit.  My brother played his first full eighteen in about three months, and he was doing pretty well until he pulled a muscle in his leg on the 14th tee. I still don’t know how that happened. I thought he was gonna quit right there, but he didn’t. He battled on, and managed to hang in there until the 17th. After he putted out, he told me he was done. So he sat out the last hole and watched me play it.  Im probably only gonna play one more time before Saturday, which is when I’m playing my “birthday round”. I mentioned on this forum about this time last week that I was playing Lonnie Poole, but my dad went on the website last Friday, and the earliest tee time we could’ve gotten was around 2:30, meaning, because it’s typically a busy course, we probably weren’t going to get all 18 holes in.  So I looked on the list of courses I made just in case we couldn’t play Lonnie Poole, and the course that stuck out to me the most was UNC Finley. I remember when I was in middle school, I had a friend who played there a lot, and he said it was a great course. We were able to get a tee time there, for 11:24. I’m looking forward to it!
    • You are overthinking it. You are basically going to have such similar shafts by hard stepping the 6.5 or softing the 7.0 (both in flex and more importantly in weight), that if you can hit one, you can hit the other or vise versa. You will get much more definitive results from bending the lofts to adjust trajectory.  You would really need to move into a different weight class before I would say you would see any noticeable difference over the long haul between shafts.
    • Coincidentally, this article came out and lists a lot of what we say in LSW and so on. Scoring lower again involves: Not taking penalty shots. Not taking doubles or, when you get better, not making a bad bogey. (You're still going to make some bogeys.) Playing for pars and letting the birdies happen is tough for people to get. Understanding where to miss the ball and fitting the "better side" into your shot pattern/Shot Zone. The last part answers your question of sorts: If you can develop a ball that only curves or misses one direction, that's a pattern. You can play a patterned Shot Zone much more easily than you can play a "fern" Shot Zone (where the shots have a root and then spread out in all directions from there, two dimensionally, like a fern). I'm not sure what "fighting" a one-way miss means - if the vast majority of your shots are, for example, missing left, either open the face to take off some of that left miss/curve or just aim right and play it. If there's trouble left, aim WAY right. The smart-player's guide to dropping 10 shots — guaranteed Improving at golf doesn't require hours of range time. Recreational players just need to take advantage of the stat-based scoring opportunities out there.    
    • Things like this are why I initially brought the question up. I have nowhere to try these on. I spoke with FootJoy and they stated that you buy according to your normal waist size but that those sizes are made with the assumption that they are going over the top of your golf clothing and are sized a bit bigger
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Aldo Aitken
      Aldo Aitken
      (30 years old)
    2. Also Aitken
      Also Aitken
      (30 years old)
    3. CJK
      CJK
      (62 years old)
    4. Coffin-dodger
      Coffin-dodger
      (70 years old)
    5. Greg55
      Greg55
      (65 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...