High Dynamic Lie Angle?

[Grog Nerman]

Yesterday I got chance to hit some balls in front of the Trackman and I was really confused with very high dynamic lie numbers with my irons especially with my scoring clubs (8-PW.) For example my straight ball dwight 150 yard long pitching wedge shot (club path +1.5/face - 0.8) showed me dynamic lie of 71.5 degrees when that clubs static lie is 63.5 degrees. So in "fitting conditions" my PW should be bent 8 degrees upright (:D) which would led me to hit ball pretty much to different postal code area at left. (And my miss with scoring clubs is always hook/overcooked draw left)

So my question is: What is the cause for high/low dynamic lie angle? What is that I'm doing that makes the number that drasticallly high?

So before you ask why I'm looking my dynamic lies with detail you need to know about my process:

I have been working now about two months with my irons because last season I developed tendency to swing a way from the inside (6-9 degrees) which led me to hooks and fat shots. So the first thing was to get club path back to near zero and I managed to do that when i started to feel like I hit ball -10 degrees from out to in BUT still there was the issue with clubface...

When I was hitting shots so far from inside I naturally started to roll my right wrist to get club square but now when I was on the plane I needed to get rid of that so I started to stiff my wrists during the impact much like feeling you have when you are hitting a fade. If I even think about relaxing my hands at impact the the ball will hook left and I was thinking "I dont want to hit every shot like this its got be the lie angle, I need to get flatter"

And that leads us to my question.. 

 

[iacas]

You're aware of the fact that the shaft and clubhead have what is called "droop," yes?

If the ball is starting on your desired start line, with all of your clubs, you likely don't need to adjust your static lie angle.

[Grog Nerman]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

You're aware of the fact that the shaft and clubhead have what is called "droop," yes?

If the ball is starting on your desired start line, with all of your clubs, you likely don't need to adjust your static lie angle.

So then in that case I'm raising my handle too much because without that my clubface doesnt square constantly and my shots are going left. (ex. path +2 face +3.5 is common)

I have neutral grip at adress and at the top.

So the key would be to fight against rising my hands at impact so I can avoid occasional thin shots. But also there is the route where I flatten my lie angles and try to find some good from this "new release" and "old release."

But thats my problem to solve, thanks iacas for finding me a solution to understand there values.

 

[Grog Nerman]

In addition high handle=early extension so I need more hip turn and try to eliminate my too dominant right hand.

Need to figure things and see what it does to dynamic lie next time when I have Trackman. 

My overall game is ok (75-low 80 scores) but I feel that if I want to get to the next level I need to be more consistent with scoring clubs. This dynamic lie-value was the biggest thing that jumped to my eyes so its good thing to know how to manage it.

Many would say that you should check things more with pro but one thing that fascinates me in this game is figuring these things out by myself and that makes me understand more from "science-side" of this game.

 

[iacas]

I’d believe the handle is too high for sure. Especially given what you said about your path being well right before. Fixing EE is not easy but will pay big dividends.

[Grog Nerman]

Little update:

Getting better and swing liike otettu good. With 7 iron (static lie: 62) my dynamic lie stands in about 64-64.5 for the most. Tried also with same iron bent 2 degrees upright but that didn't affect lie at all (every shot went obviously left).

I'm pretty hard hitter carrying my 7i 185 yards and I'm playing with  Elevate Tour X 105-shafts. Could this higher dynamic lie be caused by too light shaft? 

 

[Grog Nerman]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:24 PM, Grog Nerman said:

 Tried also with same iron bent 2 degrees upright but that didn't affect lie at all (every shot went obviously left).

 

 

Hah. Noticed this just now.. of course the lie was same because the club lie was bented to 64... 😄

 

[ArodGolf21]

So I’m new to the forum though I’ve been reading it for years.  So excuse my lack of understanding in regards to quoting previous text etc… Grog Nerman or anyone that has an answer to this. I have the exact same problem as Grog Nerman in regards to lie angle on a trackman. Literally, I see the same numbers and got very far from the inside as well.  I have been able to neutralize the path to an acceptable range but I believe I have a high handle and EE as well!  Here are my questions for you:

1.  How did you fix up the missing pieces to bring the dynamic lie down?

2.  Did you leave your clubs bent upright while trying to make the swing change or did you leave them at factory spec? (I was going to have them bent 2 degrees upright today!) 

3. Should I even trust the trackmans dynamic lie numbers? I’m told trackman isn’t as reliable as the gc quad in regards to this parameter because trackman can’t read metal. Anyone please advise. It’ll be much appreciated 

[Grog Nerman]

12 hours ago, ArodGolf21 said:

So I’m new to the forum though I’ve been reading it for years.  So excuse my lack of understanding in regards to quoting previous text etc… Grog Nerman or anyone that has an answer to this. I have the exact same problem as Grog Nerman in regards to lie angle on a trackman. Literally, I see the same numbers and got very far from the inside as well.  I have been able to neutralize the path to an acceptable range but I believe I have a high handle and EE as well!  Here are my questions for you:

1.  How did you fix up the missing pieces to bring the dynamic lie down?

2.  Did you leave your clubs bent upright while trying to make the swing change or did you leave them at factory spec? (I was going to have them bent 2 degrees upright today!) 

3. Should I even trust the trackmans dynamic lie numbers? I’m told trackman isn’t as reliable as the gc quad in regards to this parameter because trackman can’t read metal. Anyone please advise. It’ll be much appreciated 

Okay, lets start with 3:

Yes, you should trust the numbers, but you shouldn’t be worrying about little changes because our swings are not really that constinent. If youre 7i dynamic lie is in Trackman near 70 you probably have some work to do.

2.

I did. Still playing with standard lies. DON’T change them until your lies are close to standard and you have ball flight issues.

1. 

The biggest and most usual issue is that your swing is too steep and you are early extending to get inside and flipping your wrists to get face closed. That will make club toe dig more to the ground = high dynamic lie.

I fixed it starting from setup. Try get your posture more upright and dont sit in your stance. Don’t stick your butt too out in setup because that should happen in downswing. Big help for me was to get club more upright in setup and not lean so much on the club.

I also added little bit* right side bend in my downswing (like hitting tennis backhand up) and it helped me to shallow the club.

* too much of bend will mess your AoA

Start with the setup and from the top just rotate to your left side (keep your hands neutral) and hit little shots and see if it has any effect in your numbers.

Early extending is the biggest reason by far which is making dynamic lie high.