Do forged irons have anything to do with playability?

[SwinginCaveman]

I always looked at irons as player's clubs and never though I'd be able to play a set. After some research I found that some forged sets are meant for the low-mid handicappers and a couple others are meant for mid-high handicappers. The Titleist AP2 and Mizuno MX-25 are a couple better known forged sets that are meant for the mid-high handicappers.

I was always under the assumption that forged clubs were much harder to play. I associated them with blades and player's irons and never bothered to hit a set. Now that I take a closer look, blades and player's irons seem to be a bit different. Player's irons have a very small cavity, much smaller than your game-improvement irons but enough to differentiate it from the straight blades.

So what is the major difference between these two types of clubs? Are they just the same with different playability? I would love to have a forged set of clubs as feel is a really important part of my game.

[iacas]

I always looked at irons as player's clubs and never though I'd be able to play a set. After some research I found that some forged sets are meant for the low-mid handicappers and a couple others are meant for mid-high handicappers. The Titleist AP2 and Mizuno MX-25 are a couple better known forged sets that are meant for the mid-high handicappers.

The AP2 aren't meant for mid-high handicappers. Not unless by "mid-high" you mean "PGA Tour level to about a six". From 6-15, the AP1 (not forged) probably better fit the bill (in general).

Titleist's website says "for the skilled player." For the AP1 it says "for the skilled and aspiring player."

I was always under the assumption that forged clubs were much harder to play. I associated them with blades and player's irons and never bothered to hit a set.

Forged is a process. You can have forged cavity back clubs and cast musclebacks.

Generally forged means muscleback and cast means cavity, but that's not always the case.

So what is the major difference between these two types of clubs? Are they just the same with different playability? I would love to have a forged set of clubs as feel is a really important part of my game.

They simply exist along a gradient. Some clubs offer more forgiveness and less workability. Others flip that. No club can really offer the maximum of both - they're kind of working against each other.

"Feel" is more than the process used to make the clubs. Given an identical set of irons, 99% of golfers likely couldn't tell the difference between forged and cast. So you're probably deluding yourself if you think you can "feel" the difference between forged and cast. Most people think they can feel the difference simply because, as I said above, most forged clubs tend to be closer to musclebacks and most cast clubs tend towards the ultra-game-improvement variety. Obviously there's a lot of difference in feel between the Titleist ZM and the Callaway Big Berthas - but that's got little to do with the process by which they were made.

[DavidFehertysBike]

I know the titliest ZM that you speak of. My pro is a titliest staffer and gets loaded with this stuff. I hit both the ZM's and the ZB's and noticed very little difference between them. In the scoring clubs i noticed no difference. The sweet spots on the ZM's might be a little more towards the heel but you cant really notice that while playing. Ive hit the AP1's and 2's extensively as well, so i think i can make some kind of judgement in how they feel. I always felt the ball leave on the cast club no matter how bad or good I hit it. With the forged ap2, the only time I felt the ball leave at all is when I didnt hit it solid.

[iacas]

I know the titliest ZM that you speak of. My pro is a titliest staffer and gets loaded with this stuff. I hit both the ZM's and the ZB's and noticed very little difference between them. In the scoring clubs i noticed

Those are all forged. And the ZB is a blended set - it goes to a muscleback in the 8-PW. The 8-PW musclebacks are basically the ZMs...

I always felt the ball leave on the cast club no matter how bad or good I hit it. With the forged ap2, the only time I felt the ball leave at all is when I didnt hit it solid.

They're similar, but they aren't the same clubs. They're differently shaped and built to perform differently. There's more different about them than the way they were made, so again, it's an inaccurate comparison. Heck, they probably had different shafts in them: Project X is stock on the AP2, while a stepped shaft (DG HL) is stock on the AP1.

Bob Vokey will tell you even PGA Tour players can't tell the difference between forged and cast wedges. I highly doubt that me or virtually anyone else can really tell the difference between identical forged and cast clubs. Enough people who would know have told me as much. Any effects you believe you feel are likely psychosomatic.

[SwinginCaveman]

I was using tgw.com's guide to find the handicaps. When you click on an iron set, under the Specifications tab it says what handicap the club is meant for. It could be completely wrong, but that's what I used when making my statements.

[Divot Tool]

. . . 99% of golfers likely couldn't tell the difference between forged and cast. So you're probably deluding yourself if you think you can "feel" the difference between forged and cast. . .

I'd really like to test that out for myself. I played hand-me-down Taylormade RAC OS (cast) irons for 2 years and then moved on to Mizuno MX-25 (forged) just recently. I guarantee you that I can feel the difference on solid shots. The forging is distinctively softer. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=IopL_jG0f9E Just a few testimonials. So yes, forged irons affect playability (ball flight, distance control, shot dispersion). These nuances are sensed at the "Tour Pro" level. However, the question one should be asking is "at my skill level does it matter if I play forged to truly reap its benefits" and more specifically, "do I strike the ball consistently enough to gauge it?" What "feels good" is purely subjective and if forged irons float your boat so be it. After all, we play this game for the quality of the experiences.

[Leek]

I'd really like to test that out for myself. I played hand-me-down Taylormade RAC OS (cast) irons for 2 years and then moved on to Mizuno MX-25 (forged) just recently. I guarantee you that I can feel the difference on solid shots. The forging is distinctively softer.

Wait, a lot is missing here. I totally agree with Erik on this. What really makes a difference in "feel" is not forging vs. casting. As he stated above, design- cavity back or muscle back, weight distribution, etc makes a big difference in the discussion. Another HUGE factor is the alloy used. The softer the alloy, the more of the sensation the player gets of that buttery feel many describe. As an example, many more premium irons use 1020 or 1025 carbon steel. Most harder feeling irons will use a stainless steel. As an example, a club that "feels" pretty hard, yet is forged is the Titleist 775CB- why? STAINLESS alloy. Then of course why not build everything from 1020 alloy? Durability. The softer the alloy, the more the clubhead gets nicks, dings and other assorted blemishes. When you hear a guy complain he just got his irons a few months ago and he's upset that they already look bad- guaranteed is a soft alloy. My TourStage irons, while actually pretty new, look like they are ancient! With something hard- like Pings (17-4 alloy)- they will look like new in 20 years!

[iacas]

I'd really like to test that out for myself. I played hand-me-down Taylormade RAC OS (cast) irons for 2 years and then moved on to Mizuno MX-25 (forged) just recently. I guarantee you that I can feel the difference on solid shots.

Great. That has nothing to do with what's being discussed, as Leek pointed out. You played VASTLY different clubs. How they were built was but one insignificant factor in that.

[Guest]

Always a good question and typically I've found that the answers you receive will be a perfect reflection of those who answer. I play forged (mixed mizuno mp33/60). I absolutely believe that they affect playability, but probably for different reasons.

All research shows that players who can not hear shots (where they have on headphones) can not can not tell the difference between forged and cast. It is that sound that relates to the perception of feel.

The shape of the head will determine the ability to work the ball (cast or forged). However, the forging process creates a much more consistent grain in the club head. The most common description is that if you look at the metal under a microscope it's like comparing a bag of sand (forged) to a bag of marbles (cast). I believe that everyone should play forged clubs. Maybe you want to play a deep cavity if you're new(er) to the game, but forged is a better process for creating consistent golf clubs.

To me playability is about been able to hit shots; high, low, left, right and especially correct distance. The forging process makes all of this easier to do because of the consistency it creates. If someone is not a strong player, what is playability to them? Getting it up in the air more? Better toe and heel shots? That's about the design of the cavity, but a forged version of the same design will perform better. Period.

For what it's worth, hope it helps.

[mikelaw]

I always looked at irons as player's clubs and never though I'd be able to play a set. After some research I found that some forged sets are meant for the low-mid handicappers and a couple others are meant for mid-high handicappers. The Titleist AP2 and Mizuno MX-25 are a couple better known forged sets that are meant for the mid-high handicappers.

If feel is really important to you, double or triple tape under your grips. Believe me, it makes a great impression on 'feel'! You may even want to consider dynamic gold true temper with the sensicore.

I like forged blades simply for the feedback! I may hit MUCH better shots with cavity backs, offsets...etc...but feedback, workability and feel is KING for me. I have yet to swing a cavity back flush perfectly and have it feel the way a forged blade feels.

[rosoei]

If you can afford it, I would definitely recommend going for forged. Bought R7 Forged irons last week and have been to the range 4 days in a row. Loved the feel when the club contact with the ball. Was using cast irons before that so can really tell the difference. Going to the range tonight again.