Baldes are forgiving

[obsessedgolfer]

On this fourm one of the main subjects that is disscused in thhe golf equipment section is Baldes Vs. Cavity backs and everyone allways says that misshits on blades are horrible. When ever I toe or heel my blade i loose about 5 or 6 yards of distance and regain mush of it because the loss of spin, and my direction is usally of 2 yards if that.So the point I am trying to make hre is that blades arent going to kill you if you miss hit, and the blades I use are mussle backs supposidly the least forgiving kind of blades.

[rebby]

First, to stay on topic, I agree the forgiveness of blades isn't to bad.

kind of blades.

Can somebody please expand on the kinds/types of blades? I've seen this talked about before but I've never seen anything comparing the types of blades. A Google search just yields blades vs cavity back stuff which isn't what I'm looking for.

[Laxplayer201092]

Heres how i was brought up thinking..

Mizuno mp60's are blades, ping s59 are blades, anything with a very small clubhead, are blades, 695cb, etc,

but mp67, 695 MB are all blades also, but there also muscle backs, meaning these are less forgiving than say, the mp60's, altho they both retain the same shape, Understand?

So if you mishit a 695CB on the toe, you might go 6 yards right, 5 yards short, whereas a 695 MB, you may go 10 yards right, and 7 yards short..

Either way, blades are not THE MOST forgiving, No one can tell you blades forgive mishits unsless your mishits are very very small, Its simple science, Now, blades also get a very bad rep, I play blades, I dont think my mishits with these are any worse than with my R7TP';s, or than with the s59'[s i had before them.. but They definetly tell you that you mishit the ball, and that info is invaluable to me, thats where i think blades trump over the cavity back, not in distance lost, but in info gained.

Brian.

[Zeph]

That is probably the most important thing about blades. I've read a bit about blades and gotta say they don't seem as frightening as earlier.
A perfect hit give you a better shot with blades, but a mishit might go shorter and further off the line than a mishit with a CB.

The positive thing about blades is that you're being forced to hitting the ball better, the negative is that you'll probably end of worse with a mishit than you would with CG. There are also various levels of this. From the full CB to the cleanest blades you've got many models.

The beginners will probably choose a full CB.
The ones with established hcp around 30 can pick one with less CB.
The ones having reached a hcp of below 20 can pick one wich even less CB.
The ones about to hit scratch could go with cut muscle or something similar.
The ones well established as scratch can go with a pure blade.

Does this sound plausible to you guys?

Individual preferences still makes most people able to play with most models, but this seems roughly how you can seperate the grades from full CB to a clean blade.

[rebby]

The ones about to hit scratch could go with cut muscle or something similar.

Alright, pure blade vs cut muscle? Some examples? I just got a set of

ZM's, that's classified as a muscle back but what's the difference between this and a "pure blade"?

[hamletsdead]

The only "pure" traditional blades I've got are the MP-67s, which I find to be fairly forgiving, but on a miss-hit I will lose 10 yards on average.

Although I haven't had them very long and haven't hit them very often, my other very blade-like cavity backs (MP- 57 and Callaway X-Forged) seem to consistently give me about the same distance, even on misfires. From the standpoint of learning to groove your swing to hit the sweet spot, the MP-67s give me more feedback just because the sound it makes when you don't hit it right is so painfully obvious --- nasty "clack" versus sweet "click."

[rebby]

The only "pure" traditional blades I've got are the MP-67s

Mizuno considers those "cut muscle back irons". The waters remain cloudy.

[Stacey_E]

I would define a "pure blade" as any blade without a cavity at all. Think Mizuno MP 14s, 29, 33s, Nike blades, old Wilsons, CG1s etc. If you can clean the club with one smooth wipe on the back, it's a blade for sure. From there, you have the smallest cut muscle mizunos to the largest cavity back Callaways.

I play a "player's iron" in 7-pw because I prefer their accuracy and heft. They are a small cavity style with a muscle type bulge behind the ball. I know what the guys mean about no real loss of distance on mishits. But I would like to make this disclaimer: I carry my 7 iron around 150. If i hit it extremely thin it will carry about 125-130 and run for hell ending up about 150 from where I am. Same for my other irons 7-pw. So in that sense, for me, I loose no real distance on mishits. Now if I were shooting over water.......splash!

[obsessedgolfer]

First, to stay on topic, I agree the forgiveness of blades isn't to bad.

I play

rac mb coin forged blades

[tonyy]

I play MP-33's and the unforgiveness wasn't as bad as I thought. I would lose about 5-7 yards of distance though. Only the really bad misshits are when the ball goes flying to the left or right.

[obsessedgolfer]

I play MP-33's and the unforgiveness wasn't as bad as I thought. I would lose about 5-7 yards of distance though. Only the really bad misshits are when the ball goes flying to the left or right.

You probably regain much of that because of the loss of spin.

[Harry Longshanks]

Alright, pure blade vs cut muscle? Some examples? I just got a set of

BLADE:

MUSCLE BACK: CUT MUSCLE (muscle back subcategory - Mizuno) Z-MUSCLE (muscle back subcategory - Titleist) CAVITY BACK:

[rebby]

Exactly what I was looking for and, believe it or not, exactly what I had thought was meant by the differnt types of blades. Thanks!

[Harry Longshanks]

Exactly what I was looking for and, believe it or not, exactly what I had thought was meant by the differnt types of blades. Thanks!

No problem. Those are the technical descriptions of club types, but on message board forums, most people use "blades" to describe clubs that are actually muscle backs. I don't know of any company currently selling a true blade. And then there are clubs that combine muscle backs with cavity backs, like the PING S57 or the TITLEIST ZB Or MIZUNO MP-62 (aka "Dual Muscle") Really, these days, the better description of catagories is: (1) Player's Club (2) Game Improvement Club (3) Super Game Improvement Why? Because with modern club design, appearance does not always correspond with traditional notions of ofrgiveness and workability. For example, the new PING s57 (closer in appearance to a muscle back) is 10% more forgiving than the PING i10 (cavity back):

[Zeph]

Very good stuff Harry, thanks for the explanation. You mentioned something I've heard before, the three categories. Do you have any info on what this exactly means? When a player is looking for new clubs, how should he or she choose if you first only rank the clubs by this indexing?

(1) Player's Club
(2) Game Improvement Club
(3) Super Game Improvement

We now have the correct description of the clubs, they are divided into categories. All we need is an explanation of what those categories mean and what the differences are to help people in picking their new clubs.

[hamletsdead]

Can someone please weigh in from a science and engineering story on why "cut muscle" is not considered a blade? I was definitely under the impression it was a blade, and that the only real distinction was between blade vs. cavity back, with their being varieties among the cavity backs (e.g. bigger cavity to smaller cavity).

Are the cut muscles perimeter weighted like cavity backs? I sure didn't think so.

[Laxplayer201092]

Very good stuff Harry, thanks for the explanation. You mentioned something I've heard before, the three categories. Do you have any info on what this exactly means? When a player is looking for new clubs, how should he or she choose if you first only rank the clubs by this indexing?

SuperGI=generally have plenty of offset, big, meaty clubheads, wide soles,thengest iron si a 5 iron, having 3 and 4 hybrids, geared for the weekend player, the 20 handicap, or just player who wants to hit draws. Little to no feedback, generally cast. Cobra S9, Nickent 3DX, TM Burner, ping rapture, etc. game improvement- a midpoint, some offset, some feedback, will bail you out on mishits, but can still help you work the ball, a good choice for anyone, good or bad ball striker. TM r7, titleist 775, ap1, etc. around 15-5 handicap. Better player- Lots of feedback, little offset, samll soles, small club, generally forged, for the player who watns to work the ball, can be full MB's, or some more cavity desighn with the same profile, like the titelist 695 MB/ CB.

[golf_junkie27]

Can someone please weigh in from a science and engineering story on why "cut muscle" is not considered a blade? I was definitely under the impression it was a blade, and that the only real distinction was between blade vs. cavity back, with their being varieties among the cavity backs (e.g. bigger cavity to smaller cavity).

http://www.cutmuscle.com/ Click on the information regarding "concept." It give a good explanation of the idea of the cut muscle being designed for consistent weighting and forgiveness.