How is Slow = Fast?

[Shindig]

I'm a self-professed math nerd, and I can't figure this out.

An average amateur's swing speed is much slower than that of a professional. Mine certainly is. However, I keep hearing that most amateur golfers swing the club faster than they should. I was just reminded of the latter when thumbing through Butch Harmon's Four Cornerstones, where he said we should take 1.6 seconds, maybe two seconds, for a golf swing (p.220) but most of us take under 1.5 seconds. And I think Harvey Penick made a comment about super-fast backswings.

Can anyone reconcile this for me? Amateurs should take slower swings to swing faster? Or am I combining two unrelated facts in my head?

[zeg]

You are mixing things up.

Club head speed does not equal swing speed.

A pro swings at a slower tempo than this hypothetical amateur golfer, but his better technique results in a faster club head speed. The idea they're getting at is that trying to swing your club faster by rushing your swing results in terrible power transfer from your body to the ball, since you lose control of the club, etc. Obviously there's *some* connection between the speed of your arms on the swing and the club head, and the guy who swings faster without introducing faults will hit the ball farther, all else being equal.

For one thing, your backswing should probably be the longest part, timewise, of your whole swing. Swinging back faster obviously does nothing to impart energy into the ball, and will make you a lot more likely to lose control before you even start swinging forward.

[jcrob902]

You are mixing things up.

He is right because when you take the club back slower you give your self time to get in synce for your down swing, I have found that I hit the ball farther by alot and straighter when I slow down I take a prctice swing at what I figure for me is 80% an I conciously make myself hit the ball with the same swing that I used for my practice swing, if I dont I snap hook it or come in to fast tot square the club face and hit a big push slice, remember the club is designed to work a particular way and just like spinning it with your irons hitting big drives is all about making a good swing and solid contact, even if your average carry distance is 225 on a good swing if you make a bad swing and miss you'll probably only carry it about 190 and who knows where it's going no matter if you generate another 10 mph in club head speed.

[Stacey_E]

I think the posters so far have hit the nail on the head. The idea is that if an amateur can't sync things ups, then swinging harder is really doing more harm than good. I've often been amazed on the launch monitor when I swing as hard as I can just for fun. Most of the times my clubhead speed is as slow or slower than with my normal smooth swing. I've heard this phrase..."effortless power" vs "powerless effort".

My dad has never played a round of golf in his life. Yet he gave me some of the best golf advice when I was 15 years old. I wasn't golfing though, I was driving on my learner's permit. As we rounded a curve I must have been wiggling over the line. He screamed at me to slow down. I looked at the speedometer and it said 45 mph. I, in my youthful ignorance, said "I'm only doing 45 and it's a 55 mph zone". To which he quickly snapped, "Well you're not in control. And it doesn't matter what the speed limit is, if you are not in control you need to slow down. I don't care if you're going 10 mph, if you're not in control you are going too fast." That was 20 years ago. To this day I've pulled myself out of some horrible swing days with that tidbit of advice..."If you are not in control you need to slow down."

****one more thing. Clubhead speed doesn't necessarily equal distance. Ball speed equals distance. So a quallity strike with a 90 mph swing will go further than a toe shot from 100 mph swing. That's probably stating the obvious though.

[JaY_B]

IIRC this is to do with the 'fast points' throughout the golf swing. Amateur golfers generally start the downswing much faster than pro's do, the amateurs swing speed at this point is actually faster than a pro's.

Pro's on the other hand start the down swing much much slower and let the speed build gradually so that the fast point of the swing is at impact.

The advice saying 'Amateurs swing to fast, and should slow down' is probably given to slow down the beginning of the downswing to ensure the fast point of the swing is at the point of impact.

[keb]

I realized my tendency to swing to fast at the inside golf dome last week. As I was warming up I took a slow swing and hit it straight and far. Hopeful the light bulb that went on will translate to good things on the range. I like your story and advice.

[flanagan]

If the moderator gets it up in the reading room, there is a book called "Tour Tempo" that takes a mathematical look at swing tempo and speed. The basic premise being that effective players, when their swings are broken down, have a few basic, defined patterns. The conclusion seems to be that most amateurs swing relatively too slow, in the sense that they take long, deliberate backswings, focusing on the minutae of what they are focusing on at the time, then rush the downswing with over the top, casting, etc. consequences. Interesting read.

[Shindig]

I would like to thank everyone for their responses. This makes sense now.

[GaijinGolfer]

I think that when they say amateurs swing the club faster than they should, they are saying that they get out of tempo, off-balance and dont hit the ball solidly.
Im guility of it too. I tend to be too quick on my backswing, which gets me out of tempo and causes me to hit bad shots.
If I slow things down and just swing easy, I tend to hit much better shots.

[ebough]

What is really important is tempo, and it will differ somewhat from player to player. Too fast or too slow a backswing is no good. The purpose of the backswing is to progressively stretch core and arm muscles so that they can contract more powerfully in the downswing. In the ideal swing, the core is starting to reverse just as the backswing is coming to a halt. Pro golfers make it look easier than it is. Baseball players always do the same thing, but the backswing is much shorter. Making the transition from back to forward smooth is what is critical.

[DrivingRangeJunkie]

I don't know the answer to it, but I do know this after hitting a bunch of straight ones with my burner: TAKE IT SLOW. I used to try to smash, demolish, destroy the ball. But I actually just swung at the threshold today, just below the out of control limit, and I now know my groove, and it works.

[golfire6]

The question is not whether you swing too fast or too slow . The question is whether the fastest part of your swing is at the optimal time in your swing . Pros swing in a way where they speed up the most just before and through impact with the ball . Pros also have a greater amount of "lag" in their swings as opossed to most high handicappers . Most people are trying to generate pace in the wrong way . They are trying to force the club through , when they should think about allowing the club to release through impact .

When I hit the ball the cleanest and farthest , it feels as if I've hardly swung hard at all . If I want to hit the ball a long way , I think most about taking the tension out of my hands and arms , loading the shaft properly in my backswing and then simply try not to get in the way of the club as it whips thru the hitting zone ... -- K.