Taking clubs OUT of my bag.

[sean_miller]

But again, I get taking out, say, a wood or wedge that you don't hit well. No biggie, and I did it too. I DON'T get taking out a 6i and an 8i so you carry 5, 7, and 9i. The skill to hit an 8i is hardly different than that to hit a 7 or 9, and if you don't need the room in the bag for a different club, what's the benefit? Why do you want to take a 75% or 80% shot with a 7i to go 150, when an 8i would do it with a full swing?

You really don't get it.

[Chris Stack]

You really don't get it.

You're right, I don't.

Can we agree that the swing for a 6i through 9i aren't really that different from one another? If you can hit a 6i okay, you can probably hit a 7i, 8i, and 9i okay? And vice versa? So if we agree on that, we agree that one doesn't need to "master" any one of those clubs at the expense of the other, right? That a long time practicing on the 7i really doesn't affect practice on the 6i or 8i, you are mastering the same skill, right? So, if you use the same swing with each, why would you want to take one out of your bag unless you are making room for another type of club? Figure there's ~10yds between each iron, what are you gaining by taking a set that goes 140-150-160-170 (9-8-7-6i) and going to a 140-160 (9i-7i) set? I really don't get it. And I'm not being argumentative. I'm fairly new at this whole golf thing (playing 5 years now) so maybe there really IS a valid reason to play 2 of 4 irons, leaving the other 2 at home. But for the life of me, I don't understand it, and aside from some odd reason about playing 3/4 swings (couldn't you do that anyways, with all the irons in the bag?) no real reason has been given. So I'd be thrilled if you'd enlighten me.

[iacas]

Can we agree that the swing for a 6i through 9i aren't really that different from one another? If you can hit a 6i okay, you can probably hit a 7i, 8i, and 9i okay? And vice versa?

Sean can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's really beside the point.

The point I think he's trying to make is similar to Seve practicing to hit balls out of a greenside bunker with a 4-iron. If you have only a 3W, 5I, 7I, and 9I, and a putter (for example) you're going to force yourself to hit different shots, even if it's just "swing a bit easier with the 7I" to fill the role of your 8I. Too many amateurs focus on making ONE swing when the best golfers can make SEVERAL types of swings. Removing clubs is often the easiest way to force the average golfer to make at least ONE different kind of swing (again, "softer"). On the other end of the spectrum, it can teach them to hit all sorts of different shots with all sorts of different swings.

So if we agree on that, we agree that one doesn't need to "master" any one of those clubs at the expense of the other, right? That a long time practicing on the 7i really doesn't affect practice on the 6i or 8i, you are mastering the same skill, right?

Yeah, you really missed the point. He's not disagreeing with that, I don't think - and you're proving my point that a lot of people think there's "one swing."

Golf clubs are tools. The better players can use a 7I to do a LOT of things, and those skills easily translate to an 8I, a 6I, and even a 4I. Even a driver. Again, by removing clubs, you force a player out of his "one swing" comfort zone." I had 132 yards, downhill, and into a little breeze yesterday on the 17th at Whispering Woods. The green slopes back left to front right. 132 is right between a 9I and a PW, even in those conditions (the wind would neutralize the downhill pretty evenly). I took a half swing and hit a low 7I that cut up into the wind and landed softly 12 feet from the cup. That was the only time I hit a shot with that "swing" that day, and I learned it by goofing around on the range and seeing what was possible with a 7I. How high could I hit it? How low? How short? How far? How much draw? etc.

So, if you use the same swing with each

If there was a way to play a "checkmark" sound every time you kept proving my point, I'd insert one here.

why would you want to take one out of your bag unless you are making room for another type of club? Figure there's ~10yds between each iron, what are you gaining by taking a set that goes 140-150-160-170 (9-8-7-6i) and going to a 140-160 (9i-7i) set?

To get better. To learn how to manipulate the tools you have at your disposal. There aren't ~10 yards between each club - there are only ~10 yards between each club with one particular swing. I can make full swings with my 5I and my 7I and hit the 7I 20 yards farther - and 10 degrees lower - if I want.

I really don't get it. And I'm not being argumentative. I'm fairly new at this whole golf thing (playing 5 years now) so maybe there really IS a valid reason to play 2 of 4 irons, leaving the other 2 at home. But for the life of me, I don't understand it, and aside from some odd reason about playing 3/4 swings (couldn't you do that anyways, with all the irons in the bag?) no real reason has been given.

Again, if all that removing some clubs results in is a guy taking 3/4 swings, that's still a win, because the guy - if he's paying attention - will probably notice that his 3/4 swings result in better contact and truer shots.

And yes, you could hit 3/4 shots with a full bag of clubs, but be honest: how many average golfers do you see gripping down on a 5I when they have a 6I yardage? Zero. They grab the 6I, flail away, and don't learn anything about themselves or their tools.

[sean_miller]

Can we agree that the swing for a 6i through 9i aren't really that different from one another? If you can hit a 6i okay, you can probably hit a 7i, 8i, and 9i okay? And vice versa?

At a couple points in every set of irons there are enough changes in shaft length, loft, lie angle, sweet spot location that subtle but fundamental changes in the setup and swing are required - like ball position, posture, more upright or shorter motion, etc. Typically it's from 7 to 8 iron and then again from the 5 to 4 iron, but it can be anwhere from 4 through 8 nowadays. That's one of the minor reasons why beginner sets only came with 3, 5, 7, and 9 irons. Sure keeping down the cost was the biggest factor, but taking out the even numbered irons removed some of the doubt about when these subtle swing changes needed to take place. With only the odd numbered irons you could make all the different types of shots you needed - not just full approach shots from out in the fairway. A beginner could make a long iron swing with the 3 and 5, a mid iron swing with the 7, and a true short iron swing with the 9.

. . .what are you gaining by taking a set that goes 140-150-160-170 (9-8-7-6i) and going to a 140-160 (9i-7i) set?

If you are being argumentative, I probably am as well. Just don't tell me what I agree to, and I won't tell you must drop irons from your set to be a better player. Let me just add the following to see if I can add some clarity to my opinion.

Let's look at it from a beginner's standpoint, event if they've been "beginning" for 40 years. The average 30 handicap player doesn't likely have their irons swing grooved to the point where they can even realize the advantages of a 10 yard distance gap versus a 20 yard distance gap. At least not from what I've seen on the course. Most high hdcappers I've seen would be better off - if they feel the need to carry a full set of 14 clubs - carrying 2 putters (a mallet for short putts and a blade for lag putts), an extra hybrid or fairway wood for driving on long par 3s or tight par 4s, and a couple extra wedges with varying bouce and sole characteristics for varying turf and forget about narrowing the gaps from 140 to 160 to 180. From the viewpint of a better irons player (regardless of handicap), A 20 yard gap is approximately 2 clubs (20 paces, 60 feet). There would be less waffling between clubs on the tee and play may even speed up. It's not really that hard to back off a 170 yard club (7-iron) and hit it 155. It's also not that hard to walk on a smooth 140 yard club (9 iron) and get an extra 10 to 15 yards out of it. Good players do this all the time - vary their swing to hit ball the distance and trajectory they want with a variety of irons - it's good practice for playing in the wind, when laying up, when playing safe over hazards, when hitting out of a hazard or out of the trees. Playing with fewer clubs is good practice in general, and as it tends to lower expectations it can actually decrease scores. Either way, anything you can do that excercises your creativity as well as your muscles is a good thing.