Passive golf swing?

[SubPar]

  geezer said:

Plus, he hit that 3-wood heavy

I noticed that too and plan to give him some grief about it.

[BritBoy]

  geezer said:

Plus, he hit that 3-wood heavy

ya but come on geezer, give the man his dues. Who else could hold a pose for that long with a smile on his face after hitting a fat 3 wood from the deck?

[geezer]

  BritBoy said:

ya but come on geezer, give the man his dues. Who else could hold a pose for that long with a smile on his face after hitting a fat 3 wood from the deck?

I was trying hard not to laugh when I seen that too. i could just hear him thinking to himself:" oh crap thet was heavy

... but they won't know that, they don't know that ball only went 50 yards,... just smile and finish ..."

[Jack_2251]

  c_mack9 said:

my swing for my irons is similiar, i just let gravity bring the clubhead down and i get good results but NO distance. maybe when i perfect gravity i can hit my 8 iron 180 yards.

A 180 yard 8 iron is not short. I play off 11 and am lucky to hit 135 with an 8 iron.

[supercow]

Have to wonder whether he has stronger lofts/longer shafts on his irons if he's hitting 180 yard 8 irons...

[BritBoy]

  geezer said:

I was trying hard not to laugh when I seen that too. i could just hear him thinking to himself:" oh crap thet was heavy

I figured it out...... that was his "I'm too far out, I'm just gonna lay up" swing

[SubPar]

  supercow said:

Have to wonder whether he has stronger lofts/longer shafts on his irons if he's hitting 180 yard 8 irons...

I don't know about Ron's lofts, but most excellent ball strikers do deloft irons 2-3 degrees. I have hit his L-wedge and 3-metal and they are stiff and heavy with a kick point up high in the shaft. I think the L-wedge is E4 something like that.

I once played with a guy who was a scratch golfer and a professional long-drive competitor. He said all players who have powerful, precise swings deloft their irons because they have no problem getting the ball up in the air. He hit a 551 par-5 with driver /4 iron. The driver was 7 degrees and he said the 4 iron was delofted to a std. 3 iron... but this is no different than top pros who can hit an 8-iron 200 yards if they choose to. The loft of the club and the shafts are tweaked to maximize performance based on the individual swing and they have the talent to hit it long, short, high, low, spin, low spin, etc. Look up the specs for various club sets on-line; the lofts vary quite a bit. That is why it is usually pointless to ask someone what they hit in an effort to gather information, unless you know the loft and shaft length and usual carry for that player with each club. A TM r7XD PW is 44 degrees, but that would be a 9 iron in most sets. There is clearly a science to matching the club to the golfer. But if your swing is not the same most of the time that reduces the value of customizing the sticks. That is why most people don't get a real fitting till they are at least a 9 handicap. SubPar

[SubPar]

  geezer said:

I was trying hard not to laugh when I seen that too. i could just hear him thinking to himself:" oh crap thet was heavy

You'll notice that is not a tight area so there is some grass around the ball. The club has to catch some of the grass behind the ball.

As for the swing dynamics, I have seen Duval crush a drive and his swing looked so smooth and relaxed he could have been taking a nap. Watch Els or Goosen hit a wedge on TV and make note of how far they are hitting it with a 'soft' 3/4 swing. It is human nature to expect a full golf swing 'for distance' would have to exhibit certain physical elements, but golf is very counter intuitive. Even Jack once said when he wanted to crush a drive he would actually slow his over-all tempo because the distance comes from the timing between the body and hands more than anything else. It is like watching some kind of Lance Burton magic act when Ron grabs one of my clubs and hits it off the planet. He seems to be taking such a measured, relaxed cut, but the ball just freaking takes off high and long. SubPar

[iacas]

  SubPar said:

I don't know about Ron's lofts, but most excellent ball strikers do deloft irons 2-3 degrees.

I've heard it's closer to 8-10 degrees for a PGA Tour player, and that the forward (or backwards) lean of the shaft at impact almost directly corresponds to handicap (in general).

So if 0 degrees of lean was a 9 handicapper, and 10 was a PGA Tour pro, maybe 4 (forward lean) is a scratch golfer and +5 degrees is a 22 handicapper or whatever.

  SubPar said:

I have hit his L-wedge and 3-metal and they are stiff and heavy with a kick point up high in the shaft. I think the L-wedge is E4 something like that.

Heh, E4 would certainly let "gravity" help! Once a club that heavy starts moving it's gonna be hard to slow down. Maybe that's how he can hit his 3W four inches fat and still have it travel 285!

  SubPar said:

Look up the specs for various club sets on-line; the lofts vary quite a bit. That is why it is usually pointless to ask someone what they hit in an effort to gather information, unless you know the loft and shaft length and usual carry for that player with each club. A TM r7XD PW is 44 degrees, but that would be a 9 iron in most sets.

But you're not taking into consideration the center of gravity. It's typically a LOT higher in musclebacks (thus resulting in a lower ball flight) and a LOT lower in game improvement clubs (thus resulting in a higher ball flight).

That 44° wedge probably launches at about the same angle as a 48° muscleback wedge. Just look at Titleist's 695 lineup. The 6-iron of the .MB is 32° and in the .CB it's 30°. It's two degrees stronger across the line, but at any point you can make a mixed set because the launch angles are the same. So, don't be fooled by lofts alone.

[Diggitydog]

  SubPar said:

He explains the head thing in one of the insructional tips

I asked my former instructor who attended the President's Cup how he liked Mike Weir's swing. He said didn't notice too much on him but who I was really impressed with was Trevor Immelman. He commented how his swing was so solid etc.

In the November 2007 Golf Digest Trevor Immelman does a feature piece and one part he's talking about getting his head moving earlier in the swing similar to Anika Sorenstam. All this head moving talk got me thinking yesterday so I did some practice swings where I let my head pull up earlier and it really felt like I was accelerating through impact without any extra effort. It was a weird feeling though that is for sure. My feeling was that my impact would be affected by this move, not sure. Also the other thing my instructor was impressed with was Woody Austin. He took out a driver on the tee box, dropped a ball on the grass with no tee, whacked the ground behind the ball a few times with his driver to fluff up the lie and hit a sweet driver off the deck on the tee box. Oh Woody, you're a crazy mofo!

[SubPar]

  iacas said:

The L-wdege is in the E range. I don't know what the other clubs are. But wedges are usually several clicks heavier than the other irons.

SubPar

[SubPar]

I mentioned to Ron this morning that the yardages on his video may not be the best idea. He said it was not his intention to imply that those were exact yardages he would hit with that exact swing. He said if he were hitting his full distance with the clubs he would "step on it", meaning faster core rotation. I suggested he put up some videos with swings intended to deliver specific results indicated, which he agreed to do.

He is happy to engage in conversation/debate about technique and results. Also he offered to give a free one hour clinic for a group of SandTrappers anytime we can put it together . He would demonstrate his methods, video each players current swing and exchange notes with any of us in the area who choose to come.

If anyone in the SoCal area is interested send me some contact info and we can try to set something up. Depending on how many of us are interested he would do it more than once, if need be.

BTW: he was working with a European pro (Magnus "something" from Sweden) this morning who was poping his 9 iron 160+.

SubPar

[iacas]

  SubPar said:

The L-wdege is in the E range. I don't know what the other clubs are. But wedges are usually several clicks heavier than the other irons.

Yeah, they are usually heavier. Like D5:

http://www.titleist.com/golfclubs/we...spinmilled.asp . So he's 10 "clicks" heavier (D5 -> E4, since E0 is a valid weight). Cleveland goes up to D6: http://www.clevelandgolf.com/index.p...a6fd&current;=2 So he's only 9 clicks heavier there. So c'mon, let's not turn what was intended to be an offhand remark (about his fat 3W still having the momentum to get through the grass because it's E4) into a pretty silly discussion.

[Diggitydog]

I was just thinking about this head thing and if you watch Anika Sorenstam hit you would think she hits her driver 200 yards. I think there is something to this head release thing for generating more power through the ball.

[iacas]

  Diggitydog said:

I was just thinking about this head thing and if you watch Anika Sorenstam hit you would think she hits her driver 200 yards. I think there is something to this head release thing for generating more power through the ball.

You'd say the same about Ernie, almost, too.

The secret Tour pros have when they hit the ball far is balance. They can hide their speed by looking so balanced. Lots of average golfers can gain a little extra swing speed but we have to throw ourselves out of balance to try to achieve it. Annika, Ernie, and virtually all good golfers I've ever seen have great balance, and it goes a long, long way towards masking their clubhead speed.

[supercow]

  Diggitydog said:

I was just thinking about this head thing and if you watch Anika Sorenstam hit you would think she hits her driver 200 yards. I think there is something to this head release thing for generating more power through the ball.

Duval does something similar. I've also fiddled around with this technique (rotating your head toward target prior to impact) and I think it has helped to reduce some strain in my lower back, gain a bit of distance, as well as gain a little bit more control. Takes a bit of getting used to though... (especially with regards to timing. Go too fast/slow and the head movement can impact on your swing negatively.)

[SubPar]

  supercow said:

Duval does something similar. I've also fiddled around with this technique (rotating your head toward target prior to impact) and I think it has helped to reduce some strain in my lower back, gain a bit of distance, as well as gain a little bit more control. Takes a bit of getting used to though... (especially with regards to timing. Go to fast/slow and the head movement can impact on your swing negatively.)

As started allowing my head to lead the way I had a tendency to come up and left which lead to some thin and/or leftward shots. Gradually I am starting to trap the ball and swing down the target line as I move my head and it is leading to longer straighter shots.

In the past few days I have been hitting some excellent iron shots and realizing afterward that I was not looking at the ball when I hit it. That is a big adjustment for me, since I have spent ten years trying to "keep my head down" and still. SubPar

[sonicblue]

  iacas said:

I watched the guy's intro video.

I have to chime in on that point, though - those iron swings were like 60%. No way that guy hit that 3I 215-230 yards. I'm 6', 190 lbs, with long arms. I know that I have good swing mechanics, and I know that I've made very tense-free, good swings, and I don't often hit it 300. I realize ball-striking is important and all that, but those swings simply could not send a regulation golf ball those distances. IMHO.