Is There Something Wrong with the Way We Learn Golf?

[JonnyGolf]

After three years, 150 lessons and obsessive practice I can't understand why my swing bottoms out at a totally different place every time. Makes it kind of impossible to hit a golf ball.

Wow, that is so sad. If after a 100 lessons, I couldn't make you a 10 handicap, I'd give you your money back.

[jc21539]

I don't exactly remember where I read this - it may have been Ben Hogan's book or in one of Bob Rotella's books, but I really don't remember - but it sticks out in my mind none the less.

Whoever the teacher was, he had a student that was having a lot of trouble making solid contact. Do you know what the teacher said to the student?

He said, "Go home, and don't come back until you can hit the ball. Until you can make contact with the ball every time, I can't help you."

Sure enough, the student came back.

Your swing is bottoming out at different places because your mind is so cluttered with swing thoughts that you are forgetting your basic objective: hit ball at target.

[DaveLeeNC]

After three years, 150 lessons and obsessive practice I can't understand why my swing bottoms out at a totally different place every time. Makes it kind of impossible to hit a golf ball.

This won't be particularly helpful to you, but without even having seen your swing I feel confident that you have a way too early release and are flipping your hands through the ball. That is a hugely tough move to time and is the source of your problem.

I don't know an easy solution. I would suggest that you start with the shortest shot that you can hit without doing this - and get good at it. It might well be a little 25 yard pitch with a LW. This should at least get you to a good short game. Then see if you can do it from longer distances. This is not an easy problem to solve, in my experience and observation of myself and others. dave

[Guest]

Nice idea....but we all know the real fun comes from hitting the ball far!

[JonnyGolf]

I don't exactly remember where I read this - it may have been Ben Hogan's book or in one of Bob Rotella's books, but I really don't remember - but it sticks out in my mind none the less.

This is so right on target. You can't worry about a swing shape until you consistently hit the ball. And, I don't care about your swing, stance, grip, whatever, you should be able to hit the ball every time.

[deakanutz]

Yep, I was struggling and we spent an entire lesson with 1/4 SW trying to hit punches with back of my left wrist flat(I am Righty). It was so very difficult for me because I tend to wrist the bottom and hit very high shots. It really improved my contact and crispness. Of course after the lesson I spent a week hitting nada but punch SW till I ingrained the feel, now its second nature. The grooves on my SW are worn nicely.

[golfnut_rlv]

An overused golf expression will apply to this post. "Its not how, its how many". Which is why as a player, a professional, and a teacher I HAVE TO teach based on scoring. Sure that includes some technical information, but hopefully, as little as absolutely necessary. As for the video portion of teaching, video is not a a solution to either bad teaching, or struggling players. Video is a tool to be used in the correct situation to aid the player and the teacher. For example, I have a student, a lady, who I worked with for 18 months before I even considered using video. I only used video when it was the inly option to explain the motions that I wanted her to learn and repeat. Many teachers use video and model, "cookie cutter" swing techniques too much, and don't rely on convential swing analysis, and do not realize that every golf swings has its own idiosyncracies, charms, and differences.

[Ringer]

An overused golf expression will apply to this post. "Its not how, its how many". Which is why as a player, a professional, and a teacher I HAVE TO teach based on scoring. Sure that includes some technical information, but hopefully, as little as absolutely necessary. As for the video portion of teaching, video is not a a solution to either bad teaching, or struggling players. Video is a tool to be used in the correct situation to aid the player and the teacher. For example, I have a student, a lady, who I worked with for 18 months before I even considered using video. I only used video when it was the inly option to explain the motions that I wanted her to learn and repeat. Many teachers use video and model, "cookie cutter" swing techniques too much, and don't rely on convential swing analysis, and do not realize that every golf swings has its own idiosyncracies, charms, and differences.

You hit the nail on the head. Sometimes swing quarks simply don't need to be fixed. But once the student sees the quark they want it gone. The thing most people don't realize is that the idiosyncrasy is there because it helps them hit the ball. You fix the idiosyncrasy and the ball will probably start to go everywhere. So then the student doesn't trust the teacher anymore. It's about making someone play better, and seeing your swing on video has the potential of openning pandora's box if you don't know what your doing. You have to know your primary learning process and work within that. Just because it's "neat" doesn't make you play any better. BTW, golfnut, I have found video most useful for before and after demonstrations to the student. It provides some evidence and confirmation that there is actual change taking place.

[golfnut_rlv]

BTW, golfnut, I have found video most useful for before and after demonstrations to the student. It provides some evidence and confirmation that there is actual change taking place.

Very true. Another student/teacher story for you. I have a student, who will be the first to admit that he is not patient when it comes to golf swign changes. I did a couple of lessons with him, and I decides that for him to improve, his swing plane needed to be more upright. I did not tell him this, so as not to get his mind spinning, but i instead told him that next session we would put his swing on video, and compare it to a swing that I thought was where he needed to be. To make matters worse, I told him that the change that was upcoming in his swing was "big" and that it was a "Secret". Well, this made him so mad (We are pretty good friends, thus I can get away with this). When I finally put his swing on video, and then he saw what I was going to have him learn, his light bulb clicked on. It was like an epiphany.

so... the point of this tale is that you are correct, video is a tool to assist the student and the teacher, not a fix-me-up-like-that-tiger-guy-so-i-can-make-gobs-of-money-and-marry-a-swedish-model! Alright, off my soapbox now.

[2underpar]

Your swing is bottoming out at different places because your mind is so cluttered with swing thoughts that you are forgetting your basic objective: hit ball at target.

And there it is: THE TARGET, that should be the focus of every golf swing, NOT THE BALL. As long as the ball is the target and the mechanics of the swing are cluttering your mind, you will never hit the ball consistently. Sure, it's great to be able to analyze the mechanics of great ball strikers with our modern high speed video cameras, but that is

not the way to teach a good golf swing. If you have not read it already, the book Extraordinary Golf by Fred Shoemaker has made a world of difference in how I think about the golf swing and the results are phenomenal.

[Ringer]

And there it is: THE TARGET, that should be the focus of every golf swing, NOT THE BALL. As long as the ball is the target and the mechanics of the swing are cluttering your mind, you will never hit the ball consistently. Sure, it's great to be able to analyze the mechanics of great ball strikers with our modern high speed video cameras, but that is

I've read this book about 20 times now.

[DaveLeeNC]

And there it is: THE TARGET, that should be the focus of every golf swing, NOT THE BALL. As long as the ball is the target and the mechanics of the swing are cluttering your mind, you will never hit the ball consistently. Sure, it's great to be able to analyze the mechanics of great ball strikers with our modern high speed video cameras, but that is

I'm curious as to just what you did WRT using that book to help your game. I also have it and was quite enthusiastic about what I was reading about half way through. Everything that FS said about the club throwing exercize was something that I had already observed about my practice swing. I have a "screw the process and the results and just swing" game. I can play to around an 8 that way. Alternatively I can work very hard on things, force myself to do things that my subconscious violently (apparently) doesn't want me to do, and play to around a 5 or 6. I just couldn't relate to the last half of Fred's book other than the fact that I have a HUGE blindspot (backswing) that seems to be suffering from permenent retinal damage. How did this work for you? Thanks. dave

[2underpar]

My main "technical" problem prior to this book was blocking, or not releasing through the ball. Visualizing a throwing motion and throwing At the Target has all but corrected that.
The second thing and probably more importantly in the long run is the mental or emotional reaction to consecutive mishits. Previously, when my focus was on the scorecard and I hit 2 or more consecutive mishits, I was boiling which tended to help create more mishits. Now I have learned to enjoy the beautiful surroundings, conversation with friends or new acquaintances, or just be grateful to be out for some exercise and sunshine. Being able to play each shot without the baggage of the previous shot has made the whole experience much more enjoyable.

Having only finished reading the book for the second time last week, and the first time about 3 weeks ago, I don't have dozens of rounds to bear witness that these are lasting changes, but for the rounds that I have been able to play, not only did I enjoy the outings more, but I hitting the ball much more freely and longer consequently.

[DaveLeeNC]

Matt, thanks for the explanation.

dave

[Ringer]

My main "technical" problem prior to this book was blocking, or not releasing through the ball. Visualizing a throwing motion and throwing At the Target has all but corrected that.

That's a wonderful testimonial to the book and you have certainly pulled out of it some of the more crucial elements of what he says. Learning to be present and not beliving the past dictates the future. So many people get caught up in what happened and don't realize the possibilities of the future.

Throwing clubs is an incredibly easy way to develop good swing mechanics through non-mechanical thought. It's instant improvement if you simply let it be done. When you try to really focus on the why's and how's then suddenly you're lost back into the "culture of golfers". But the most profound thing I think I took away from that book was the simple idea, "Learning is about understanding distinctions." It's not about right and wrong but rather cause and effect. A mistake on this swing might be the exact thing you need later on.