Is There Something Wrong with the Way We Learn Golf?

[jc21539]

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe all this technical stuff about the golf swing, albeit perfectly valid, is just not the best way to learn how to play?

I've heard a lot of golf instruction about elbow position, club face positions at impact, shaft direction at the top of the swing, etc. But nobody, and I mean nobody, can think about any of these things while they are actually swinging and expect to hit good shots consistently. Maybe a tip will work for a day, or a week, or a month, but eventually it seems to wear off and the same old mistakes seem to magically reappear. So maybe it's not actually the instruction that is making the difference, but it's simply that thinking about something specific lets everything else happen naturally without our own minds interfering.

If history proves one thing, it's that we are always wrong. There will always be new theories, new ideas, and new techniques. But the fact of the matter is that in the entire history of golf, the basic idea of how to hit a golf ball has remained the same. Some can call it a matter of what is considered the same and what is considered different, but if you do some research, you will see that things haven't changed all too much. Check out this site: http://www.printsoldandrare.com/golf/ . Some of the pictures are from before the 19th century, and yet they probably look a lot like many of our own swings.

Another example: babies having better swing planes than your average Wednesday night leaguer. This baby has definitely practiced his elbow positions - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av1IZrT8SVA .

I'd like to hear everyone else's opinion about this issue. Maybe I'm completely nuts. Or maybe we all are.

[klaymon]

I'm still very new to the sport so take what I say with a grain of salt...

My opinion is all the super-technical stuff can be used to eek out those last few yards of distance or add that extra-special touch to the ball on a wedge shot. Do I think it's necessary for a recreational golfer? Not really.

When I swing at the ball, I think of nothing but "Hit the ball". I'm sure I have about 20 errors in my swing that go against the text book version. I bend my arms completely on my backswing, I have a little sway I'm sure, I can't seem to get the weight transfer part down (ending on front leg), I can't tell you what my club face is doing at any point in my swing except impact (apparently it's pretty square), I don't know where my belt buckle is pointing at any given moment, etc, etc, etc, yet I can still drive the ball 280+ yards and pretty darn straight. Chipping and putting kill my rounds, simple as that. My irons and driver work pretty well.

Would focusing on these things help me? Maybe. I might get another 10 yards out of it, but the headache is not worth it right now. When I get to the point that I want to compete in this sport on a serious level, I'll take a look at those things.

[TourSpoon]

I have always had a gripe with teachers that take a 25 handicap and try to teach them a tour swing from day one. They put them on a screen next to a tour player and overload them with technical information. The better teacher will start with fundamentals and maybe one or two concepts and build a golf swing over time. They will incorporate many things, especially feel.

The last lesson I had incorporated video so that I could see it, the working part of the lesson to learn the new concept, drills and practice to feel it and video to see it again. If I only had one thing to go on it would be the feel portion of the lesson because when you are practicing and playing that is about all you have because you can't see yourself.

Now much has been said about backswings and positions, etc, but when you look at the swings of yesterday (before video cameras, and computer imaging) they were unique. The big constant was position at impact. That must be why I love watching the old "Shells Wonderful World of Golf". Their swings had personalities.

Oh, and yes, we are all crazy...

[Shindig]

That you're starting with the full swing is mistake one; it's also one mistake I made. If I had to go back to when I was learning, I would've bought a putter and a gap wedge and learned putting and chipping. Then pitching. Then full swing. And then I'd probably play darn well my first time out.

[tm22721]

The big constant was position at impact.

Why don't they focus on impact after teaching the basic setup ? Because that's not where the money is.

Perfecting impact will markedly improve your GIR and your score.

[flash]

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe all this technical stuff about the golf swing, albeit perfectly valid, is just not the best way to learn how to play?

You have some excellent observations here.My feeling is that if you want to really play this game you must put in the time and effort on your OWN to solve golfs' many puzzles. Instruction is valuable to a point but like many other sports if you don't work at improving you won't.There is nothing wrong with playing a game for the fun of it.I love tennis but I am never going to improve because I play it for exercise only.

[Guest]

Great topic and one that is close to my heart.
Yes, learning the fundamentals and practicing them are imperative. But doesn't it make sense to implement the mental side of the game at the same time? We (Golf Professionals) are missing a critical element in teaching our students, and that's the "inner swing".

Golfers need less technical instruction on the range, more mind power programming, and to just play! I gave most of my students lessons on the golf course. That is where the game is played. Of course beginners need the fundamentals, and instruction needs to given on the range and especially short game area, but please get out and play! I heard a Ben Hogan quote years ago that always stuck with me. When he was asked what was his secret to success? His comment was, “You’ve got to dig it out of the ground”....

Read more about your inner mind power

In mind power and gratitude
Randy

www.GolfMindPower.com
Perform inside & out!

[flash]

Great topic and one that is close to my heart. Yes, learning the fundamentals and practicing them are imperative. But doesn't it make sense to implement the mental side of the game at the same time? We (Golf Professionals) are missing a critical element in teaching our students, and that's the "inner swing". Golfers need less technical instruction on the range, more mind power programming, and to just play! I gave most of my students lessons on the golf course. That is where the game is played. Of course beginners need the fundamentals, and instruction needs to given on the range and especially short game area, but please get out and play! I heard a Ben Hogan quote years ago that always stuck with me. When he was asked what was his secret to success? His comment was, “You’ve got to dig it out of the ground”.... Read more about your inner mind power

In all the time I've been on this forum your response has refueled my faith that there are others out there in internet space that believe the same as I.Which is..Bottom Line...If you want to succeed ya better start helping yourself. Thank you for your post Randy

[fusioncal]

That's why there are Technical and Feel type of players. Technical refers to the textbooks and feel uses their instincts. I believe this topic has been mentioned in one article from older Gold Digest issue. It further adds that one player may have more of the other or a balanced of both. If memory serves me right, Tiger Woods is 9 technical and 1 feel type of player.

[follyforhire]

I am unsure whether I really even have an opinion on this. I know what a bad shot looks and feels like, and I generally know what sorts of things I might have done during my swing to produce that bad result. So, while I'm on the range or the course, I tinker a bit and try to make a swing that doesn't contain the element(s) that might cause another poor shot. (That's a backwards way of saying it. I try to make a good swing, not a not-bad swing.) All of which requires at least a working understanding of certain swing mechanics/physics/geometry/theory.

I think I understand your larger point, and it's a fine one to make. If you're just saying that it's possible to overthink the swing and "tip" ourselves crazy, then I think you're probably right. But everyone from a hacker like me to a touring pro uses a technique to hit the golf ball (necessarily); getting better at doing that is a technical issue. Now, only talking and thinking about those technical issues will do us no good. We do have to hit A LOT of shots, which I think you're saying as well.

On a related note, jc21539, I love your avatar. That image is welded onto my brain. I think maybe can all agree that Golf My Way is technical instruction worth watching.

[Ringer]

There is a lot more wrong with the game of golf than how it's taught.

In all of my person to person lessons I am afforded the luxury of identifying their learning style. Once I understand their learning stle I taylor my instruction to it.

There is one thing which I think is most lacking with instruction. It seems to be getting more and more geared toward what the instructor see's or the camera see's. It should be about what the student see's, feels, or hears. That's the only way their going to learn. A video lesson is great, but what happens once the student no longer has a video camera to look through?

[jammer59]

As an older dog (48) also new to golf and striving to improve in my first year this is a timely topic for me. I'm happy to practice all aspects of the game for hours per week but I always worry that I'm practicing bad habits that are then going to be more difficult to break so I worry about just working things out myself.

I've gotten to the point where I can shoot around 90 and have nines in the low 40s. I tend to pull irons and pull slice the driver and longer clubs. People watching me say all the usual kinds of things -- you swing over the top; outside in; release too early, etc. and you'll have to change those fundamentals if you want to improve and become consistent.

So -- I started instructions with a very technically oriented pro: lots of video feedback and many drills oriented around achieving the P1-P10 positions, more lag, better hip rotation, balance, etc. It seems reasonable but the immediate result is that I can't hit the ball at all! Does anyone have some idea of timelines required to translate this sort of training into some basic swing results? I need encouragement to be patient or I'll just start contentedly whacking on the ball again!

[DaveLeeNC]

FWIW, I think that the number of golfers who actually "learned the game" from professional golf instructors is very small. OTOH, there are a huge number of golfers who came to instructors with some kind of golf game with the request that it be changed. They are very different things.

Golf instruction must be a very frustrating profession. I once did a fair amount of work on the typical Pelz wedge drill of 7:30 backswing, 9:00 backswing, 10:00 backswing, and 11:00 backswing. I got pretty good at distance control, and then I looked at it all on video. I saw an 8:30 swing (30 yards), a 9:45 swing (40-45 yards), 10:00 swing (50-55 yards), and 10:15 swing (60'ish yards). Other than close inspection on video or "how it felt to me", the 40'ish yard shot and the 60'ish yard shots were indistinguishable.

It must be like trying to teach someone to read, but first you blurr the printing on all the pages so that you can't make out the letters.

dave

[sbgolfin_06]

Does anyone else ever wonder if maybe all this technical stuff about the golf swing, albeit perfectly valid, is just not the best way to learn how to play?

This is also something that I think about quite frequently. (LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF MY SIG). Granted, I was very lucky to find a very good instructor. However, it wasn't until I took the approach to golf as it being a game, that I have really started to dramatically improve. I have been an athlete all my life and never considered golf a true sport until recently. I started thinking about, well, how did I learn to swing a baseball bat? How did I learn to score goals? Yes, it is important to have an understanding of what your body should look like through your backswing and through impact, but it is not the most important thing. It used to make me so frustrated when I would ask my instructor specific questions about how my swing looked at certain positions and he would give me vague answers. But in the end, looks like he knew what he was doing. He has gotten me to a point where I know what I did wrong every time I mishit the ball, much like in baseball when you start to learn why you hit a weak grounder straight to the shortstop. Cuz you tried to pull the outside pitch instead of taking it to right field!

[tm22721]

It used to make me so frustrated when I would ask my instructor specific questions about how my swing looked at certain positions and he would give me vague answers. He has gotten me to a point where I know what I did wrong every time I mishit the ball

I had the same experience with my instructor who was a 'feel' player. He could not explain the details of a correct impact position (beyond squaring the club head) even though he had a correct impact position in his own swing !

But I am an analytical person who likes to take things apart. So I quit lessons and started analyzing the videos of tour players in slo-mo, then replicating their positions in my own swing. Such is the sad state of golf instruction.

[jc21539]

I think it is quite a valid point that there is a huge difference on the instructor side between a player who is just starting and a player who has already had a hundred lessons courtesy of Golf Digest.

I actually left my first instructor who taught me the "throw the club down the fairway" swinging imagery, because when I wanted to talk about the technical aspects of my backswing plane, he told me it didn't matter and I should focus on the part of the swing that actually hits the ball. I pretty much wrote him off as a flake.

Little did I know that when I left him, I was also leaving behind my ability to hit a consistant draw. Who's the flake now.

We could get into analyzing individual molecules and atoms and what their role is in each of our golf swings. That doesn't mean we should.

By the way, the "throw the club down the fairway" drill, which was practiced by following it quite literally, is a great drill for getting some feel back into your game, for anyone who has struggled with technical mind-fudge like I have. First lesson I ever had on swinging a golf club, and probably the best one too.

[JaY_B]

I suppose it depends on the type of player you are, I am a technically minded player, and as a result have a good swing, good ball striking ability, but my short game is no where near the level my long game is, where as a feel player would have an awesome short game but a slightly worse long game.


But is there anything wrong with the way we learn? yes the impact position has to be good to hit good shots consistently, but the easiest way to get in to the 'correct' impact position is to also be 'correct' at the top of your back swing, and also be 'correct' half way through your swing.

I don't buy in to everyone teaching a tour swing, some teachers might be one dimensional and preach (I use that term loosely) that the players technique is key, but they are rare and will probably lose custom fast.

IMO the way the pupil learns is up to the pupil, they pay the teacher to tell them what they want to hear, and most people want to hear "get in to this position at the top of your swing and you will gain 20 yards", where as the minority want to hear "this is how you should approach this golf shot"

There is a problem with the way a lot golfers learn, but that is the golfers fault, the PGA Pro that teaches them can only offer services that are in demand AKA the long game, not the short game and mental game

[Quinn07]

I think a lot of newer players go to see a pro and assume that their swings and game will be fixed right away. What a lot of them don't realize is, like most things in life, that it usually takes hours of working on the particular drills and such for it to become natural. Taking your game from the range to the golf course is another thing I think people really struggle with. I don't think there is enough emphasis on the mental game as there should be.

I have been playing golf for 15 years now, and I am just starting to realize that in order to get better I have to strengthen my mental side as well as my game.