My Swing (UFGator0587)

[UFGator0587]

I've been Playing Golf for: 9 years, on and off
My current handicap index or average score is: 26
My typical ball flight is: Push-slice
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Block/push/slice and thin shots

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8 iron DTL: 

8 iron FO: 

 

Just to give some more context, I started off 9 years ago with a big slice and a bad reverse pivot. After fighting both for a while, I decided to try the Stack and Tilt swing, with little success. I quit playing for a few years and somehow after going a long time without even picking up a club, I suddenly had a big hook.

I worked to turn the hook into a draw, but after years of struggling with inconsistency, especially thin shots, fat shots, and shanks, I decided to try to rebuild my swing again. Unfortunately I feel like I'm no closer to the kind of swing I want, and I can't seem to make any progress despite hours of studying and practicing. Any help in finding a breakthrough for me would be greatly appreciated!

[Grizvok]

How do you have an index of 26 with that swing?

[BBOne]

Can you see the differences? Justin Rose has a proven classic swing, so probably a good model for you.

It looks like you're over-doing the "firing of the hips" we learned over the years. Do you see your hips are over-rotated at contact? 45 degrees is OK, but you're at about 60 degrees. Your knees are almost touching before contact. You're not using your right leg to drive through contact, you're spinning on your left leg and your right leg is just being dragged at this point. Slow down your video and you'll notice your heel starts coming off the ground about here on the downswing:

A lot of us started to try to just fire our hips a few years back, and it was supposed to make us hit like Tiger. Bad move. It can lead to all kinds of timing issues. Did you notice your left arm is bending at contact? Here's the next frame:

It's classic early release or "goat humping". I've fought this too in the past.

Below is a frame to show you what I think you're doing wrong that could help to fix all the early release and spinning issues.

Do you see how far away your right elbow is from your rib-cage? Notice Justin's elbow is against his rib-cage?

It's called staying connected. It keeps your club in front of your chest, and helps to keep your whole swing in harmony. You're allowing your body to swing separate from your arms, and it takes perfect timing to ever get a decent hit out of it.

My advice is to stick a towel under your left arm-pit (or both) and practice keeping it there until after contact. You may have to take your back-swing only to 80% at first to get the feeling. It will probably force you to stand a little taller, which is fine. Go with it. I think you should be standing slightly taller with the ball a little closer.

On he down-swing, focus on turning slower so the force you feel pulling on the club stays in front of your right chest instead of to the right side if your right shoulder. Everything should feel centered and swinging together above your waste, with your hips leading everything.

This will force you to stay on your back heel longer and be in a position like Justin at contact and after.

I think you've just got a few simple adjustments and feels, and you're there. I only suggest these things because I've fought them myself.

Good luck.

Edited August 26, 2018 by BBOne

[UFGator0587]

17 hours ago, Grizvok said:

How do you have an index of 26 with that swing?

To be fair I haven't actually calculated my index, so I probably should have just put that I normally shoot around 98. And the short answer is that it's mostly lost balls. I'm good for at least one or two OB per round right now because of this stupid push-slice I'm currently fighting. I keep expecting it to go left because that was my natural shot until earlier this year, and...well...you know the rest.

12 hours ago, BBOne said:

Can you see the differences? Justin Rose has a proven classic swing, so probably a good model for you.

It looks like you're over-doing the "firing of the hips" we learned over the years. Do you see your hips are over-rotated at contact? 45 degrees is OK, but you're at about 60 degrees. Your knees are almost touching before contact. You're not using your right leg to drive through contact, you're spinning on your left leg and your right leg is just being dragged at this point. Slow down your video and you'll notice your heel starts coming off the ground about here on the downswing:

A lot of us started to try to just fire our hips a few years back, and it was supposed to make us hit like Tiger. Bad move. It can lead to all kinds of timing issues. Did you notice your left arm is bending at contact? Here's the next frame:

It's classic early release or "goat humping". I've fought this too in the past.

Below is a frame to show you what I think you're doing wrong that could help to fix all the early release and spinning issues.

Do you see how far away your right elbow is from your rib-cage? Notice Justin's elbow is against his rib-cage?

It's called staying connected. It keeps your club in front of your chest, and helps to keep your whole swing in harmony. You're allowing your body to swing separate from your arms, and it takes perfect timing to ever get a decent hit out of it.

My advice is to stick a towel under your left arm-pit (or both) and practice keeping it there until after contact. You may have to take your back-swing only to 80% at first to get the feeling. It will probably force you to stand a little taller, which is fine. Go with it. I think you should be standing slightly taller with the ball a little closer.

On he down-swing, focus on turning slower so the force you feel pulling on the club stays in front of your right chest instead of to the right side if your right shoulder. Everything should feel centered and swinging together above your waste, with your hips leading everything.

This will force you to stay on your back heel longer and be in a position like Justin at contact and after.

I think you've just got a few simple adjustments and feels, and you're there. I only suggest these things because I've fought them myself.

Good luck.

Thank you so much, man. I analyze my swing so much that I definitely see the problems like the hip spin-out, going under the plane, early extension, casting, chicken wing, etc., but I just haven't been able to find any way to fix one issue without creating a new one.

 

But your analysis really helped me see my key faults, and I'm gonna dig in to your suggestions. This might be the most helpful advice I've ever been given.

[Grizvok]

14 hours ago, UFGator0587 said:

To be fair I haven't actually calculated my index, so I probably should have just put that I normally shoot around 98. And the short answer is that it's mostly lost balls. I'm good for at least one or two OB per round right now because of this stupid push-slice I'm currently fighting. I keep expecting it to go left because that was my natural shot until earlier this year, and...well...you know the rest.

Thank you so much, man. I analyze my swing so much that I definitely see the problems like the hip spin-out, going under the plane, early extension, casting, chicken wing, etc., but I just haven't been able to find any way to fix one issue without creating a new one.

 

But your analysis really helped me see my key faults, and I'm gonna dig in to your suggestions. This might be the most helpful advice I've ever been given.

It's all about picking the one thing that you see (after some analysis) that should be your priority piece. Work on that one thing religiously through drills and/or video feedback until that it is ingrained into your normal on the course swing. Re-analyze your swing for your next priority piece and repeat.

[BBOne]

On 8/26/2018 at 11:03 AM, UFGator0587 said:

Thank you so much, man. I analyze my swing so much that I definitely see the problems like the hip spin-out, going under the plane, early extension, casting, chicken wing, etc., but I just haven't been able to find any way to fix one issue without creating a new one.

You're welcome. We're all trying to fix something. Grizvok is right on the money. One thing at a time until you can repeat it on the course consistently. But the key is to somehow find which "thing" to focus on which will end-up correcting other problems.

I wanted to come back and give you the best ball striking "breakthrough" I've ever had. And I'm talking years of adjusting this or that just trying to strike the ball consistently. Something would work for a week or two, and then for some reason I'd be back to square one with slices and thin or chunked shots. I know where you're at, and I know this will work for you. The reason I can be this bold is because it's just physics. It HAS to work, or the universe would implode. 😉

Through all the tips, drills and analysis over the years I gained a lot of knowledge but not a repeatable swing. Then one day it dawned on me the golf swing, at it's core, has to be individual for each person. Your body is built very differently than mine or anyone else.

I just told you to put a towel under your arm. I know the effect I was after. I could see your arms and torso needed to be connected and you are bent too far forward. But that really doesn't help unless you understand why and you actually feel the improvement....as in "YES that feels so right!" The golf swing is really a feeling. While you're on the course you'll do you best when you don't focus on your body, or the ball, but instead focus on the ball flight you want "out there" like a movie in your head. It's so hard not to focus on that little white ball. But it's almost like you de-focus your eyes and the scene becomes the whole area around the ball and out there where you're about to hit it. Your body then sort of takes over to allow that flight to happen.

But you have to first find your personal core swing, individualized just for your body. How can you find it? It's the action that FEELS the most effortless and natural. You'll recognize it because you won't need any hand or arm manipulations to get the club-head to the ball. Just a note...every time you stiffen or contract or push or twist a muscle in your swing, it takes the whole pendulum out of sync. You have just a small number out of all your muscles that need to be involved in your swing, and the rest of them need to stay the heck out of it. Relaxed. Just staying in the background and not interfering. Especially your hands and wrists.

Your swing should feel like you are simply turning at the right pace and in the right path to allow your left shoulder to be the end of one long pendulum all the way down to the club-head as you hit the ball. When you set-up, feel that your left shoulder all the way down to your club-head is THE MAIN PIECE OF the swing. Your objective is to get this long pendulum up in two pieces, and then back to one piece exactly two feet past the ball. Two pieces, and then one piece.

When you take your back-swing, this one-piece pendulum has to break into two pieces, at your wrist. You just let it. Meaning, you don't care where that is, you allow it to follow its own momentum. You feel the tug of the centrifugal force slowly building, pushing from your left shoulder to your wrist, as your shoulders turn, and you let your wrist hinge the correct way with soft hands (on its plane). But you don't interfere with the gravity and direction your club is taking with your hand muscles. Momentum will tell your wrists what's on-plane...just let them go that direction for the correct hinge. Then you feel the club STOP, and make sure you feel it stop. You should feel that the club-head hasn't twitched, even one millimeter, from where it was heading. You've gently delivered that club-head exactly where it wanted to go without any manipulation or pressure from your hands. Once you feel it almost frozen in time for a millisecond, that's when you let your left shoulder to start to pull it around JUST IN TIME for the two piece pendulum (broken at your wrist) to return to the starting one piece pendulum a foot or two past the ball. One long line from shoulder to club-head. You've accidentally hit the ball on the way there. But you've focused on getting the pendulum to one piece two feet after the ball, and not on the ball.

Once you understand this feeling, of allowing the club to stay unmanipulated throughout the entire swing, simply by turning your shoulders back and then forward, with soft hands and a straight left arm, you'll feel the first part of your natural swing. Without a ball in front of you, you should feel the timing of what it takes to get the two piece pendulum delivered unmanipulated to your back-swing, and then turning your shoulders at the exact timing so the two piece pendulum turns into a straight line from your left shoulder to the club-head two feet after the ball. This is very left arm dominated, but that's the only way it works for me. You should feel that your left shoulder muscles and elbow are the only stiff muscles in your body, sort of freezing those two joints (slightly stiff, don't go over board). Everything else is relaxed, and simply turning as necessary to get that 2-piece pendulum to change to one long piece exactly two feet after the ball.

Once you understand that feeling and can easily repeat the soft hands, no-manipulation arc your body needs, the rest is easy.

All you need to find out, now, is exactly where your natural long pendulum needs to START it's arc. Your personal swing plane.

If you bend-over with balanced weight and slightly bent knees, shoulders NOT pulled together by your pecs, but downward, relaxed in their sockets, with a one piece pendulum from left shoulder to club-head, wrists relaxed, club sagging a little, your club touches the ground at a certain spot. But is that the right ball placement for your individual swing? Probably not.

You need to forget about a certain spot on the ground for now and swing your club a few feet back and through, turning your shoulders around your spine as the center of rotation, feeling that long left-arm pendulum. Relax your wrists allowing your club-head to hang, swing slightly above the ground. Now, move the left arm higher on a more horizontal plane from your shoulder, and bend over slightly more, keep swinging, back and forth, move it lower, stand up more vertical, keep swinging back and through. At some point, you will feel the correct vertical plane for your ideal, perfect swing. It will feel as though the club follows exactly the right plane, down the line. Without any manipulation, if you simply turn your shoulders back and through, this feels like the club will move BY ITSELF exactly through this plane. You'll feel if the plane is too horizontal...the club will feel too heavy and won't go down the line consistently without hand manipulation. Too vertical (too low) and you'll feel the club trying to fly out away from you as you swing.

Once you've felt that plane, freeze the club in front of you on that plane. Now bend over only from the waist, knees slightly bent, balanced on your feet. The club will touch the ground (remember your wrists are relaxed, allowing the club to sink a little). That's the exact ball position for your personal swing plane.

Now, as long as there is a ball on this swing-path, and you keep your spine (and your eyes) exactly this distance from the ball, and you don't manipulate the club's natural path, and you make the pendulum go from 2 to 1 piece 2 feet after the ball you cannot miss. It's impossible. You'll actually feel amazing power with your swing and complete confidence, knowing you simply have to let it happen, at the correct pendulum timing for your body.

It's the only swing you should ever attempt. It's YOUR swing. Tweak it a little here and there for shaping, etc, but once you feel your own natural swing, and you go for that feeling every time, your ball striking will improve like you can't believe.

This has made me the consistent ball striker I always wanted to be. You can't imagine how fun the game becomes when you know you're going to make great contact. It's EASY to repeat, because your body WANTS to go there naturally. No more tips and drills trying to swing like someone else!

Anyway, long post, but I've never documented this before or read it anywhere, and it's for me as much as you! I just hope you can follow what I'm trying to say...it's not easy to put feelings into words. I hope it helps someone.