Pave

I've told you where your problem is, you video your swing all the time, you get instruction, surely you can work it out. BTW it'll show up more face on, however, the results of it can be clearly seen in your take away which is why it is so obvious. You're sort of on the right track re: left arm away from body, but you're trying to fabricate a workaround rather than fixing the cause. I'm not going to tell you any more, you work it out. If you need help, go and read Nick Bradley's book (Law 2), it's in there somewhere.

Man, you're never going to get the club into the position you want with that setup. You're error in your setup is extremely obvious.

I don't think the hcp system is the problem. It's more to do with the fact that golf is played differently in various countries. I would guess that 90% of play by golfers with a hcp is played in what the USA calls a tournament, in Australia.

The question has been raised many times in the circles in which I conduct business, the issue itself is not what I'm passionate about, understanding all points of view in regard to the future of golf is what I'm passionate about.

That pretty much sums up as to why I started the thread. At the Olympics a Golf Pro may compete whereas a Pro Boxer can't! The lines between amateur and professional are continually being blurred. Did you know that under the present amateur status rules an amateur golfer may receive payment for giving a golf lesson?

So who's going to represent USA for golf at the Olympics? An Amateur, A Professional or a Golfer? What about all the young amateur guys following a path to becoming a great golfer? You don't think they should be able to receive payment if they're good enough? So golf should stay as it is, all the top players come through a system which is largely built upon having wealthy parents to support the up and coming golfers of tomorrow? Please don't distort the last statement, I'm talking top level amateurs, Lydia Ko comes to mind pre turning pro. I can't believe that guys wouldn't want to compete against Bubba Watson playing off +7.7 in their local league. I will concede that the debate is geographically subjective, due to established forms of golf.

I think you'll find the reason why you won't find anything is because the USGA is the governing body for the amateurs, so I guess it is assumed it applies to amateurs. The R&A; is the governing body where I'm from: http://www.randa.org/en/Playing-Golf/Handicapping.aspx

?????? Who said I want to do that? Oh and by the way, that's what hcps are for- to level the playing field. A pro can't have a recognised hcp. Erik, are you a member of the US PGA?

It seems to me that golf has matured far beyond what the original amateur/professional status rules were designed for. Why shouldn't an amateur be able to accept prizemoney in Tournament (obviously no hcp ie off the stick)? Why shouldn't a "Pro" be able to have a hcp and play in amateur events? Is it time for the governing bodies of the game to have a rethink? Discuss

The poll is a thinly veiled loaded question as to whether Jack's 20 is better than Tigers 17, you might have well asked," who's the GOAT", which there is already a thread about. If the purpose of the thread was to prove how much better golfers are today, why not ask that? There is no right or wrong answer to the poll, it's purely a personal opinion, however, there is a correct definitive answer to the purpose of your thread.

What a stupid poll. Let's argue the obvious. World population has increased, amount of golfers has increased, amount of Professional golfers has increased, depth of field has increased.

I voted yes. Mainly because the cost of maintaining fast greens is one of the driving forces behind increases in fees.

b) We play "off the stick" is the correct saying. "off the stick" is your score (ie no handicap deductions).

I know, but you should.

You have my details if you want to ask the relevant questions.

What are the approx H and W dimensions of the book? Is it full colour print?

@cipher I am very impressed with this break through. I had a quick look at where your swing has come from and to get to that position you've achieved above right is a credit to you. I appreciate the camera angles are different, but man, in all seriousness, the difference is huge. Well done, bottle those thoughts!!!!

The reason why many golfers struggle off the tee is loft. As the loft decreases so increases the obliqueness of the hit, essentially meaning that swing/contact errors will be highlighted more. Not so long ago, the only guys who teed off with a driver were pros, everyone else used a 2 or 3 wood. Since the advent of metal woods and oversize heads there has been an explosion in the amount of golfers using drivers. Sure some will say,"yeah but the heads bigger, it's weighted better, it's easier to hit etc", and there's a tiny bit of merit to the technology, however, the loft remains the same AND the damn things are 1.5" longer than what was considered std length for a driver, essentially they are designed to hit the ball further. The problem of the loft or obliqueness of the hit still remains and for the average golfer you'll be further on that really good strike BUT further in the crap the rest of the time. Try a couple of rounds where you use your 3 wood off the tee, if you still struggle to get the ball in play you may even consider trying your 5 wood off the tee.

Damn, you beat me to it, lol. @nickolasjt , I've experienced what you're talking about, but in reverse sort of..I hit the ball better when I could see my shadow at a certain angle. I sort of worked out that my focus must be slightly changing my head and neck position and that's what was making the difference. I began thinking how much truth is there to the saying about "focus on the back of the ball" or "focus on a dimple on the back of the ball", I don't know, maybe good golfers just know where the ball is and don't adhere to this saying. It would be interesting to see a high speed side-by-side comparison of shadow vs no shadow, 1. Of your swing and 2. Of your face.

Hey JP, I get where you're coming from. That pretty much sums my golf up these days- go and have fun, go for every pin, every Par 5 is eagle opportunity, it's not smart, but it's a hell of a lot of fun! My golf these days is more about playing with a group of mates for money. In the games we play the only important thing is who wins the cash, our individual 18 hole scores are not even discussed nor relevant.

Fair enough, please disregard my comments, my apologies.

I have no idea why you're directing this comment at me, I have not suggested anything about rolling wrists. Sorry, didn't think I needed to explain my terminology. Obviously I meant closed to the path. @Ernest Jones , if I told you that you need to weaken your grip and work on completely releasing the club, would it help you or hinder you?

Yeah, that's as good a definition as any, you're not hanging onto the cocked wrists, you "let it go", mechanics do the rest. The videos are are little tricky, apparently the first guy hit a fade, clubface would have been open. The second one Rory hit a draw, clubface would have been closed with an in to out path, what makes the second one tricky is the body manipulation. He was try to hit it low. Hard shot and difficult to analyse.

Quote: I disagree that there's an "original and correct meaning of the word" (as some golf instructors attempt to use it for the golf swing). And I'm not just saying that to be difficult, or anything of the sort. I simply don't think the word has a true and/or universally (or even close) accepted original definition as it applies to the golf swing. I can appreciate how you got to the point of forming this opinion. I don't necessarily agree with your opinion, but I understand it now. Thankyou. Quote: I'll start with "feel ain't real." Case in point: a student who takes his putter outside the target line on the backswing might need to feel like he wraps his putter around his right ankle on his backswing (i.e. super arc). Feel: wrap the putter around his right ankle. Real? Nothing of the sort - just a putter gently arcing inward instead of going back outside the target line. As for "I use lots of feels with golfers" that's because Everyone is a Feel Player . Feels produce mechanics. So of course I use feels. With the player above, the feel might be "wrap the putter around your right ankle on the backswing." It produces the improved mechanics. Those statements aren't contradictory. If I'm reading what you wrote correctly, you seem to believe they are. I see where you're coming from, but feels are very real. It's more the students perception that's screwed up. "feel ain't real" is confusing. There is a place for "release" in teaching, I've seen several swings on here that may benefit.