M2R

My course has pace of play on scorecard like the others posted (4:30), POP clocks on each tee, can send messages to GPS in cart when group is out of position, and has marshals that are active in POP issues. Have been in two groups that were approached by marshals here regarding pace of play. In first case it was one guy causing issues and he though it was everyone except him and reacted really negatively to the marshal and didn't attempt to speed up at all. In fact when the three of us tried our best to speed up he took it as an opportunity to take even MORE time for himself. In the second case our group had three bad holes in a row and fell out of position, no issues with marshal and we were back in position within two holes. Anyway my point was that it is a rock and a hard place issue as it seems a lot of times the people causing the most issues think they are fast players and react especially negatively to marshal assistance/intervention. Worst case I ever saw was by a guy who was a marshal himself and always lectured me on POP issues endlessly as he was a bit of a blow hard. Went to Myrtle with him and he couldn't handle the wet conditions or the tough bermuda rough. Course marshal came by and this guy told the marshal point blank that he would speed up when the course conditions were improved and until then they shouldn't expect anyone to speed up on this POS course ... nice. Two reviews from golfers relative to course policy and enforcement. FWIW management expects groups to be in position with the group ahead, not three holes out of position but still on 4:30 pace. Quote: Nice course, horrible staff. Played 4 hour round and was harassed the entire time by staff. Never play again and canceling future functions. Golf nazis. Don't waste your time unless you like to be rushed. 4 hours for isn't fast enough for theses pushy snobs. Spread the word. July 8, 2012 Quote: Do you like to be pushed by the marshal on the front, the Golf club pro Peter in the same nine, and then followed by the back nine marshal pushing you to hurry up because you can't meet the 2 hours and 5 minute time restriction on both the front and the back? If so, this is the place for you!!! June 19, 2012 Both golfer gave the course an overall rating of 1 out of 5.

My first eagle memory is from the same hole as boogielicious, Far Corner Fox #9, late October 2001, CHC was 17 then, ~170 yards out on the far right side of the fairway (tees were up that day so maybe playing 420-430 yards), pulled a five iron pretty badly as I was just trying to lay up over the pond and short of the hole on the right side (trying to play safe). The extra distance from the pull (with a slight draw) actually put the ball on the green! Putt was from about 4 feet above and a 10 feet left of the hole. Unlike boogielicious I felt this might be my first, last, and only chance for an eagle so was determined to make the putt ... ball missed the hole and went off the green and way down the hill fronting the green. Didn't even end up with a par . As long as I live I don't think I'll ever forget the vivid memory of the shock and horror that shot through my mind in the first few seconds after the ball drifted by the hole and it started calculating what was going to happen next. Up to that instant I was only calculating what would happen when I made the putt ... ... ... ... pretty much in that order ... live and learn! Don't remember any details of the first actual eagle though, but did get other chances ... luckily!

I may have misunderstood your question. If by "won't take me to far away from Blade looks" you mean at address then I probably can't help you as there must be hundreds or multiple hundreds that fit that bill. I have 1025m and they are true GI and play like GI irons, actually more forgiving than the other GI I've tried (AP2 and CG2 for instance). My opinion, since you already have the MP-32 maybe you should consider just keeping them if you can stand to work on your swing for a while. I didn't find the 6-PW really that hard to hit with just basically functional mechanics (even fair mechanics are good enough) and they won't really hurt or help most higher handicap players too much at that point, unless the overwhelming predominant miss is toe and/or heel. If that is the case and lessons and practice aren't helping, then UGI makes more sense than GI ... IMO. If you work on keys 1, 2, and 3 of the 5SK found on the forum here, the MP-32 might even help you progress faster with keys 2 and 3 if you can practice off grass sometimes, might not will. When you get even modestly proficient with keys 1, 2 and 3, you can play any club you want and that is when switching to GI irons makes the most sense ... IMO.

Might look around for a set of MacGregor VIP V-Foil 1025cm (or maybe just all 1025m). No idea about your fitting requirements but they bend easy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MacGregor-VIP-V-Foil-1025-CM-FORGED-3-PW-CUSTOM-SHOP-AVAIL-SEE-PAGE-BELOW-/190808067455#vi-content

You could try playing with the Flightscope trajectory optimizer Mike posted about in the Dan Plan Distance thread . I think it comes down to high launch, low spin for distance right? So if a little grass greases up the face it could nudge your normal shot trajectory closer toward those conditions. If you don't have raw data for the club you hit, the chart in Mike's post has data to use as a starting point. Start by just lowering spin and see what happens.

Are you sure? Not my understanding, the rule even then was the two balls were to be played concurrently not consecutively. Here is the rule in effect in 1956-1960: If it were as you suggest I would expect something like " ... he may play out the hole with the ball in play and then subsequently complete play of the hole with a second ball. Before ... " . Anyway my point was lots of similarities in the two incidents, lots misinformation, lots of opinions, confusion, and interpretations of what happened and what should have happened. Earlier I quoted " According to Morrissett, it does not appear that Palmer played the second ball correctly. ", and I'm with Morrissett, Palmer didn't proceed correctly playing the second ball just as Tiger didn't proceed correctly with his drop. Same outcome too, committee rules and tournament goes forward, just as it should.

Didn't happen to be around in 1958 when Palmer won his first Masters by any chance? Committee ruled that his second ball score on the 12th hole was valid and changed a 5 to a 3 even though it appears he did not play the second ball correctly according to procedure. Palmer went on to win by one stroke. Absolutely NO precedent or decisions that I can find to support that decision. They likely proceeded under what they considered equity and that has always been and always will be (I hope) the overriding principal. FWIW Palmer wasn't Palmer in 1958 (not completely unknown either) ... might not seem relevant but is one data point refuting the idea that "If it were anyone else but Tiger ... ". I don't have any issues with what I have seen on network TV from BC. But full disclosure, I mostly don't pay attention to any of that either ... mute button in effect.

In the thread The Mental Game in Two Words the advice is enjoy pressure and I would say closely related in competitive play, embrace adversity. The satisfaction of doing a good job (or even just better than the last time) I find can actually be pretty great. I think it is something that has to be learned though, stay engaged, stay positive, don't panic, think and adapt and do whatever you can to score the best with what you have. So when it happens I look at it as an opportunity to test my metal and see how I measure up in being able to adjust my game to it and figuring out how to score nonetheless as David put it.

I really liked your tongue-in-cheek version of the rules and thought it was clever and amusing. I was attempting to reply in same tongue-in-cheek manner and hoped the smiley made that clear. In retrospect maybe that wasn't such a well thought through idea on my part.

I don't know the AP1 but this video had some info that might be useful. From what I can understand, part of the comments are more 2008 to 710 and others more 710 to 712. http://www.titleist.com/golf-clubs/irons/AP1-710.aspx

The parts of the video I think are pertinent to your comment start at about 1:55 and pick up again around 6:20 or so. Video is pretty old so some of the info might be out of date. The really interesting part to me was the idea of windows of train-ability as people grow and develop.

What does your wife have to say on the subject? Being a great golfer with an inherent and long-term love of the game she must know something about the process of acquiring equipment and effective learning. My advice, get whatever forged iron set you "like" (meaning MP-64) as they are easier to bend and adapt going forward and should give you some flexibility if things change down the road. If you somehow know 3 degrees up, +1/2 is correct, it would be best to order them that way. Mizuno in the past had different heads for upright (tiny U stamped on sole near the heel), standard (no stamp), and flat (tiny F stamped on sole near heel). I assume they Mizuno still does this so if you started with a U head, that would give you the flexibility to go anywhere from 4 up to standard lie and obviously the shaft can be easily lengthened or shortened at any time too. But I wouldn't want to get that wrong as in the past the U, standard, and F heads were different weights as well, it would suck to order the U head and then later find out you need 1 flat. For the rest my opinion is that it doesn't matter too much as it's better to get started and adapt as needed six months down the road that it is to spend six months trying to decide what is the optimum set and find out you need to make adjustments six months down the road anyway. That is where I think your wife should be able to help you as she knows your personality, habits, and thought process like none of us can. FWIW I would also say play the softest flex shafts you can control ... but that isn't going to help you because you are going to need to play for a while to find out what that actually means.

Fixing divots and pitch marks on the green (even if they might not be your own sometimes) is implied somewhere between 1 and 5 ... I hope FWIW if a pro fitter thinks your shaft is OK I would tend to think it very likely is.

Quality of contact and technique (effective transfer of energy into the ball) trump everything else, probably up to a level most people will never even sniff. I say probably because whatever that level is it is WAY beyond anything I've experienced so I really can't say. I'm not a fan of changing equipment, the symptoms you describe are classic need instruction not need equipment so unless there is some physical problem, seek competent instruction. Competent can be a tough one though as that might take some effort to find locally. However, there are resources here that can help you if you are willing to take advantage of them. Temporary fix, when you play take the driver, 3i, and 4i out of the bag. If you don't plan on getting instruction or improving your swing dramatically on your own, then given the distances you quoted and the trouble getting the ball in the air with the driver you should check into having less flex in your irons. Not sure what analysis at GG means but it doesn't sound like competent instruction, hopefully it is helpful though, good luck.

So you are recommending practice with the most difficult irons a person can stand and playing with the most forgiving they can stand? The fact that your friend dropped 4 strokes off his personal best immediately would seem like a pretty convincing argument on the surface at least. I've seen quit a few posts where people get one or two clubs explicitly for that purpose, just to use at the range. Never tried it myself but maybe that idea does have merit. This is a crazy thread I'm not 100% sure if the discussion is 58, 59, or 53 ... not that it matters much in terms of overall context but it is confusing.

I quit like the guy, think he is pretty amusing. May be a bit of a tosser but I would rather endure someone like him that seems to have a sense of humour than a prat any day. That review is my favourite by far, cracks me up every time.

I voted never as in the last four years I have only tried to hit a hook on purpose one time. Even then I would have normally just advanced the ball safely and kept well in play but there were other overriding considerations. Add flop shots to the list as never for me too. When I was a beginner though I tried to hit all those type shots because when you don't "own" any shots, every shot has about the same chance of success.

I spent some time trying to understand D-plane, spin loft, spin axis, and how they interact to create (describe?) ball flight. I was a bit surprised by what I discovered as it got more complicated than planned. I had previously been thinking of these things in rather simplistic ways. Apparently even things like what the shaft is doing at the moment of impact, what the player is doing with their hands, and ??? can have some (small?) impact to how the ball ultimately travels thru the air. Since I couldn't work it out to my satisfaction in the end I decided at my skill level and the conditions given by the OP I would not realistically be hampered to draw/fade on command with a GI iron. More than that I feel like I gained an appreciation for how carefully worded, well organized, and thoughtful the OP was so kudos to Johnny for that.

Too timid and soft spoken?

Stimpmeter downhill, St(dn) St(dn) = 0.82 ft / (CF - sin Φ cos Φ) 12ft St CF = 0.82 / 12

29 feet

I thought I was on board with this until saevel posted "have less control over ... how much it curves". Up to that point I was interpreting "about" and "subtly" to mean in theory yes there is a difference but in practice for 98% of golfers (or all?) no meaningful differences. The vertical component I'm totally on board with, it is the horizontal aspect that I'm questioning. Or for a practical example a JPX 825 Pro PW compared to a MP-14 PW, which has more control over shaping a shot? The JPX PW is 45º and the MP-14 is 50º, if the effective increase in "delivered loft" on the JPX is less than 5º then the JPX PW is more workable right? I thought that was why the lofts on modern GI irons was reduced, to basically cancel out that increase in delivered loft. Even then my gut feel is that the increase in delivered loft for this example is less than 5º but I don't have any hard data on this.

Yea improving, but ... like David in FL said sometimes in the short term it is one step forward two back. Maybe 7 or 8 seasons ago got down to a 10.3 by just trying to be more consistent with what I had (every shot some variation of a low slinging draw) and playing/practising where I thought it would give the most bang for the buck. Meaning getting the ball on the green as fast as possible, as safely as possible. However, when my GIR started to get above 30% it put pressure on my putting and I developed the yips to the point where I eventually ended up missing putts inside ten inches at times. At the worst I sometimes had more 3 and 4 putts than 2 putts per round. Handicap eventually went into the 16-19 range as things (putting) fell apart more and more. Took two Winters to cure the yips and in the process felt I gained some insights into the full swing as well. Seemed like a good time to actually try and change my swing (commonly described as making Jim Furyk's look classic ... even elegant) to something hopefully more fundamentally functional and reliable (still looked like an earthworm being electrocuted though). Learned about descending AoA, forward shaft lean, and something I call maintaining the angular integrity of the swing. However, my effort at "change" in the full swing was let's say misguided, disorganized, and inefficient by any competent measure. But good enough to get me into the 9-11 range for two full seasons (8.6 to 11.1). I did feel like progress was being made on the full swing but would frequently get into situations where I would just have to say: since I don't "own" this shot I'll just have to try something and see how it goes, poke and hope. Mostly what I learned in this process was how little I actually know and how very, very far I have yet to go. Last season I started as a 12.1 and this season I started as 17.6. Another setback, not injury related, equipment related, or frequency of practice and play related but I'm not saying what. I'll leave that to your imagination.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! That and the "feel" (sound) for me is a bit closer to the Titleist camp than what I consider "typical" Mizuno "feel". Contrary to what is commonly posted I find the 33 to be one of the lesser Mizuno buttery feeling clubs. I don't know but have always suspected that really good ball strikers might prefer that slightly firmer/crisper, feel/sound. The MP-32 are also stupidly easy to play compared to what it looks like they might. In that respect I think to mention the 32 and 33 in the same breath is correct. However, I think the 32 actually do have that typical Mizuno "feel", in spades, so it is easy to see why they get so much love. I would add the 60 to the discussion of great MP irons Mizuno has produced in recent history. Doesn't matter what a club looks like only what it plays like. But I'm a teener so that has to be factored in to all of the above comments and "feel" is such and individual thing anyway.

If you are interested in that type of information the 2013 Shaft Fitting Addendum to The Modern Guide To Shaft Fitting is a decent place to start.