andyh

Wedge player what was your routine with the "red neck" heavy wieghted club?

He could come on to the forum and argue for the benfits of Goldfish crackers, but he didnt. He suggested that a heavy weighted club has assisted him in improving his distance. It doesnt seem to be such an outrageous claim that raises my suspicions. Along with other improvements in his game would suggest it has worked for wedge player. VJ obviously likes it. Horses for courses I say. For some people this may not be the appropriate training technique. For others it may be a useful training technique. I know football players who benefitted more from fast twictch muscle work (beacuse they were already big, strong athletes), whereas someone like myself benefitted from lifting heavier weights (along with developing speed).

I don't know why there is so much skepticism about this training technique. It assisted wedge player in improving his distance. Certainly you would not want to turn into the hulk. I play with an ex body builder and the guy might be able to lift a car but he has no flexibility and cannot get his shoulders turned. If this has increased your strength at the same time improving flexibility, technique and stability of your swing then I say congratulations. If your distances have increased and you have remained accurate then that is great. I used to play professional football (soccer) and the training drills were designed to give us a balance of power/speed. Working heavier weights and lighter weights was a regular routine with the intention of increasing power and speed. But you would want this through your whole body. Legs, butt, upper body, etc. I would imagine this to be the same in golf. No point having popeye arms on top of olive oil legs. To be consistent you need strength and flexibilty throughout the body. I think a heavy weighted club would be a great training aid as it replicates the "real" movement of the golf swing, training the muscles exactly in the correct movements of the swing. I would think it would also improve flexibility. It is not as if you are lifting a heavy weight in one direction. You are stressing and working the muscles in all the right directions. Happy xmas.

For me it was the other way round. My ball striking is now catching up with my short game and putting. I went from 36 down to single digits by mainly working really hard on my short game and putting. I got into single digit handicap in a year by learning to putt correctly and get up and down from around the greens. Of course there was slow progress with my long game at the same time. It was quite embarrasing for a while because I would be with low handicappers who strike the ball really well and I did not. Yet around the greens I was saving alot of shots. My ball-striking is now the thing i spend most of my time on as this is my weaker area. Almost everyone who advises golf improvement says to dedicate most of your time to the short game. I have done this for over 2 years and now I have switched to spending almost 75% of my time working on ball-striking. i.e on the range. I still spend 30 minutes every session working on putting and chipping and sometimes put in a good hour or two on this part of my game. Funny how we get there in different ways.

i read alot about that theory (face closing faster) but it seems to have been debunked by many experts. but i can say for sure that the extra weight adds more flex to the shaft through the swing which in effect does the same thing. and smoothing out my swing is also an extra bonus which i had not anticipated. I have read that alot of tour players tinker with lead weights and I think I see why now. without having to keep changing shafts you can just add a small piece of weight to the hosel or club head to change the feel of the club and give a slightly different ball flight. I get a good ball flight with my driver so increasing the height was not necessary.

1) - Driving : Accuracy is good. Increase Distance by another 10 yards. Try and get up to 260 yards average. Would really help me with next goal. 2) - Irons : More consistency and work on ball striking. Aim to increase GIR from 44% to 55%. 3) - Putting : Hmmm, pretty good putter. Avg 30 putts per round. But would be nice to keep that stat (or even improve it) as the GIR % get higher. 4) - Shot shaping. Work on hitting all the different shots. High draws, fades, low draws/fades. In order to take advantage of windy conditions I play in. 5) - Wedges : Getting closer to the pin from 50 -100 yards. 6) - Short game - keep practicing this. Dial in my distances from 25-50 yards with the wedges. 7) - Scratch here I come!!!!

I agree. GIR % is a great marker for all kinds of things, including ball striking, distance control and course management. The better this is the higher your GIR will be. If you are hitting higher than 50% of GIR than you can be sure you drive well and hit your irons solid.

sorry for confusion but i meant i hit 44% GIR. I am not saying this +4 has a bad short game. He putts well and his short game is decent but I have seen him make many mistakes around the green. He is a club pro and very talented. But his real strength is his long game which gives him so many scoring opportunities. Which is why I mentioned that GIRs are so important to getting down from 5 or 6 handicap to scratch or lower. Without hitting a high % of GIR you just cannot get enough scoring opportunities.

Just wanted to put my 2 cents forward on this. About 6 months ago i shortened my Ping G10 Driver from 45.75" to 44". Quite a reduction. Didnt know about swingweight then and the club did feel very "light". Also shortened 3 wood from 43" to 42". I did it to improve consistency which it did. But of course the shafts (stiff) played extremely stiff because of this shortening. And I could not get rid of a fade. I have been after playing a draw with my longer clubs but for the life of me could not do it. My swing is in good shape. My last lesson with the pro confirmed that everything was in order with my swing. So a few days ago I put lead weights around the hosel to bring the swingweight up, which made the clubs "feel" much heavier. In actual fact I have only added about 10/12 grams of weight so not a huge increase in weight. The weights around the hosel look a bit ugly and bulge a bit but I don't really care. After hitting a few balls you don't even notice it anymore. More interested in my ball flight and ball striking. Anyway it really has improved my ball flight. Much straighter with a slight draw also. The weights seem to have had a two fold effect. 1) slowed my swing down. I don't seem to have to try as hard now to hit the shot I want. 2) increased the flex in the shaft. I would guess bringing the shaft flex back to its original "stiff" before I shortened it. I can highly recommend shortening the driver but don't forget to add the extra weight. There is a lot of conflicting information about this on the web. Some people suggest adding weights to heel for instance to induce a draw but this does seem to be dismissed by many experts as myth. I don't think this is what I needed. Just a slightly more flexible shaft and the extra weight to keep my swing smoother. So if you have a good swing and are struggling with a slight fade, try adding a few grams of weight to the shaft hosel to increase the flex. Has worked a treat for me.

I play with a +4 player and he does not putt better than me. In fact I would say he has an average short game. He does not get up and down as often from bunkers as I do and the rest of his short game is not amazing. It is good, but my jaw doesnt drop watching him around the greens. My jaw does drop though when I watch him tee off and hit approach shots. He is hitting 12/14 greens in every round. And he hits it loooong off the tee. And dead straight. 200 yard approaches on par 5s are meat and fodder for this guy. So from 12/14 GIR every round you would expect a few birdies to compensate the missed greens and failed up and downs. On a good day he will shoot mid to high 60s. average day he is shooting par or a few over on a course with 74 course rating and always 15/20 mph winds. If he even bothered to practice his short game he would be unbelievable and he is already +4. For me I am at 4 hcp, the difference is GIR. I only hit 7/8 GIR, which is very low, so I have to work my butt off on saving strokes around the green and putting really well. Which thankfully I do most of the time. I know that if I get my GIR up to 11/12 per round my handicap comes way down so that is what I am working mostly on now. So I would say GIR is the most important stat once you reach low handicap level.

Paper tiger is great and a highly recommended read. The thing is he is trying to get through q-school in 1 year, starting from about a 15 handicap. he gets to scratch handicap, which is amazing in just 12 months. I wondered how far he would have got if he continued playing with the same dedication for the next few years. To be the best at a sport takes amazing dedication. Tom coynes efforts were just for one year and if he had continued with these efforts he may have found his way into the elite golfing pack. BUT, having the desire, patience, perseverence to keep going is probably what it takes to make it to the top. Dealing with the knockbacks, missed cuts, golfing plateaus, family, injuries etc and coming back stronger. Thats when you will know if you got a chance. If you keep coming back stronger then I say you do. Tiger just does not give up. The guy is the best in the world and he still trains and practices more than any other player. That sums it up. If you want to reach the top of any sport you have to be so single minded and dedicated. Do you have that mental strength? If so then you have a chance. Of course you need talent. So if you can train and practice 5/6 days a week, and have the mental toughness then you can do it. Absolutely. And the amount of practice required is phenomenal. The other poster was right about the 10,000 hours of practice required. This was a study that estimated you need this amount of hours to achieve mastery. Tom coyne did it for one year, but he probably needed another 3/4 years at his same level of training. He probably became mentally burnt out after that 1st year. Jack Nicklaus said it took him 6 years to know his swing. To have mastered it. 6 YEARS and he was and probably still is the best player whoever played the game. If it took him 6 years then it is not going to come quicker to anyone else.

i am amazed how far people can carry a 6 iron. CARRY? I have looked through the pro players stats and most of them are 180-185. So i would think that as amateurs we cannot be as far as this. If I am on the fairway, 165-170 from flag then that is my 6 iron. Nice easy swing focusing on solid contact rather than trying to force a 7 iron. From the tee on a par 3 I might use 6 iron from 175-180.

I regularly broke 100 almost straight away. broke 80 after about 18 months. i do remember my first few times nearly breaking 80, getting to the 18th needing a par and just failing. been playing 3 years and i am happy if i shoot in mid 70s. Really good day is 73/74. Average 79. I am dissappointed if i shoot 80+. Have shot under par twice on 9 hole courses.

Actually I have just done the same thing this week. I have bought 3 and 4 iron Mizuno fli hi irons to add to my MP 60s. Thinking of ditching my PING G10 21 degree hybrid now. I bought the MP Fli hi irons because they seem to have a bit more forgiving element to them rather than hitting the 3 and 4 iron MP 60 irons. Just feel like I can get a better quality shot with these Mizunos especially playing with so much wind where I live. I may still get an 18 degree hybrid to replace my 5 wood though. I think it is a case of feeling more confident in your swing. If you can hit the 3 and 4 irons then they give much better control and options than the hybrid.

yep, you hit the nail on the head. splitting up is the way to go. we just don't have enough guys to do this so we end up all together. high handicappers dont want to play longer tees and low handicappers find it tough to compete off the whites with these guys. thats golf. you gotta pick your tournies i guess. my favourite comp is playing skins with a couple of guys my handicap. no strokes. any of us can win on any day and if feels more fair to me.

I think we have to share our own experiences as this is what the forum is for. I don't doubt the data you have highlighted. But I do know for fact what happens where I play. And you know after every competition we go to the bar, have some beers and moan and winge about everyones handicaps. Part of golf isn't it? I also know for fact that certain conditions suit the higher handicappers. A guy who plays with us, 70 years old or so, often wins with 40 + stableford pts. He is straight (not long), can putt really well and NEVER gets in trouble. Plays off 26. 2 strokes on most holes. Par 5s, 4 shots to the green, 2 putts and net birdie. almost every time. Occasional par and that is net eagle. Ridiculous really but thats how it is. Playing against that is almost impossible. Now put everyone at 7,000 yards and play and no doubt the results would be different. But who wants to see 6 hour rounds?

A low handicapper does beat a high handicapper all of the time. But because we all play at different levels, handicaps give us an even playing field so we can have some fun bets. I love the competitions and play alot in tournys with handicaps ranging from 3 to 36. It is my observation as a low handicapper that unless the tournaments are played at 75-80% of handicap it is in favour of a high handicapper on a stapleford basis. On a gross basis it is more fair but we don't play that. As you say though, the real problem is not the system but the sandbaggers.

Right. If I play with a handicap 4 strokes above my real one then I have a chance. As i said most of the handicap tournys/competitions we play are from the whites. I know many guys with handicaps around 10-15 who can comfortably shoot a 78 or 79 on a good day. They keep it in play as much as I do, and if they have a good day on the greens then they are in good shape. But these same guys off the blues are not long enough and could not compete. But due to the limited numbers we have to do it this way. So to compete with these guys off the whites, I have to shoot almost par, which is infinitely more difficult for me, and even that guarantees nothing. As goblue says it doesn't seem fair when you shoot a 75 and someone else shoots 85 and wins. My wife doesnt get it when i come home and she asks how did i do. I tell her I won but lost.

Agreed that the system works if everyone is honest. Problem where I play is that players play with too high a handicap. If every week the stapleford winner is shooting 42/43 points then that is not correct in my opinion. Odds on that happening are too small. But I know for a fact that people don't hand in their cards. It's a shame but it has made me a lot more careful with who I play with for money. As a low handicap player the weighting is heavily in favour of high handicappers in a handicap tourny. A high handicap player has a bigger spread of scores and has more chance of shooting 6 under his/her handicap than a low handicapper has.

I started to break 80, once I found a way to play a reliable ball flight. If you can find a way to "know" what your shot is going to do, it eliminates most of your big scores. i.e you can choose which side of the fairway or green to aim at knowing it will draw or fade back into the middle. Then with a solid chipping game and lots of putting practice, regularly breaking 80 is very reachable. You don't have to be a world class putter but someone who can get the long putts (20-40 footers) close and don't miss too many short ones, (3 and 4 footers). Now I am trying to figure out how to break 70? Any ideas on that one?

This bugs me too. I play in regular sunday tournaments, stapleford, and you have to shoot 42-43 points to win it. A high handicapper will always come in with a ridiculous score. A really good day for me, shooting around 74 or 75 gets me about 37-38 points. It annoys me but I love the competition. I thought you were only supposed to shoot your handicap once every four rounds and certainly not 6 strokes under. I once played in a tourny and shot 73 (1 over), 5 strokes clear of the field. Finished second to a 36 handicapper who shoots 43 stapleford points. I just can't see this hapening in a tournament situation if you are genuine about your handicap. Although I do know that if you are on the cusp of a breakthrough you can shoot well below your handicap. I played in another tourny with a guy who shoots a 70 (1 under) on a course with a 73.9 rating. He had a 10 handicap but was improving so fast (young guy) that I could see it was possible, although I was still very surprised. But the guy I played with, a 1 handicapper, who shot 77 both days was well p****d. I cannot really compete with the higher handicaps in the stapleford tournaments. Unless the tournys are on the longer blue tees, but we always play off whites.

I started when I was 37. Took me 1 year to get to single digits and shoot 72 (1 over par) on full course. No lessons at that point but lots of practice and I figured out quickly that the short game is what counts most. I learnt how to chip and putt and even with a shaky full swing, a good short game can get you down into single digits. Has taken me another year and a half to get down to 4 handicap index. I had gone as far as possible with my self taught swing so took 6 lessons about 6 months ago to cure my over the top motion. Now have a good swing but have hit a plateau with my scoring. In fact scoring has gone up a bit. I feel that my scoring is starting to come improve again now in the last few weeks. Not sure how to take my game to the next level but really feel like it is close to happening. Hitting lots of fairways, making my up and downs and putting very well. Need more GIRs though. I may take a few more lessons soon.

Practice Every day for 2 hours. 1 hour on the range hitting from wedges through all my clubs to driver. Try to vary shots from draws to fades. Also I play in a lot of wind so am working alot on knockdowns and punches. Then the other hour is short game. Chipping, putting and bunker game. I used to work mostly on 3-4 footers and lag putts from 20, 30 and 40 feet. But the last few weeks have changed it a bit after a 36 putt round. (my average putts/round is 31). So I have been doing drills from 6, 8 and 10 feet and this my last few rounds have been incredible putting. I sometimes practice another hour or so in the evening, then it is normally more putting and chipping. Biggest problem for me is GIR. I putt well, get up and down alot, drive well. But I only hit 6/7 GIR per round. Need to improve this. By the way longballger, I see u use a Mizuno fli hi 21. How is it? I have been thinking of replacing my Ping G10 21 degree hybrid due to too high a ball flight.

Yep, I know that feeling too. Going through it now. Got my handicap index down from total beginner to 4.5 or so in 2 years through being self taught. Took lessons 4/5 months ago because I felt I had gone as far as I could on my own. Was regularly shooting mid 70s at that point. Lessons taught me a proper swing, eliminating the over the top move. Now I feel my swing is where it should be after 5 months of working on it, but my scoring just does not reflect it. Been hovering around high 70s to mid 80s the last 2 months. I know I can get low. Have shot 2 under on short 9 hole course and 1 over par on normal size course several times in high winds. But I was hoping the lessons would have given me the ability to regularly go low now. Frustrating feeling, when you know you are a better player than before but you score worse. Anyway I will keep persevering. Gotta relax and stop stressing about the scores.