LPGA to require English proficiency

[wilbur.kay]

That might be taking things and descriptions a little far.

And when it comes down to it, the Koreans did choose to come to America rather than the imperial LPGA stealing their skills for their benefit. You really do 'get what you give' in much of life and as a whole the players will get more money if they give some time to improving their appeal to sponsors. Until the sponsorship dollars equate from external (Korean) sources, that means attempting to satisfy the US dollars demands.

[gbk56]

Truely sad. This reminds me of an old sign I saw in a history book.

"Irish Need Not Apply"

They should just change that to "Koreans Need Not Apply"

Do people really watch the tour to hear interviews or players give acceptance speeches? I never sit there thinking I hope Lorena wins this because I love her speeches. I watch to see good golf and I rarely watch any of the post interviews because the interviewers never ask any interesting questions.

I have played golf, soccer, basketball etc. with many people who do not speak English and we usually have a great time. I think sports really is a universal language.

I watch to see particular players. If the LPGA would do more stories so that we would know the backgorund of some of its top player that would do a lot for the sport. Did anyone one know Shin who won the British open lost her mother at an early age in a car accident and slept by her side in the hospital before she died?

If the LPGA is worried about sponsorship they should look at themselves in the mirror for not doing their job. The golfers in my opinion are providing very competitive and interseting golf to watch. The LPGA is not doing enough to make the game interesting to the general public.

I guess the next move for the LPGA is to give asian players anglo names.

One other point is how well would you do in an interview, live, on tv, in front of millions of fans at the age of 19 speaking your own langauge let alone a foreign language. I think many would barely be adequate in their own language let alone speaking a foreign language. Look at Michelle Wie. She speaks three languages fluently, but does not really give spectacular interviews and Annika is just so boring and dull I don't even bother.

I sincerely do not think people are watching to hear the interviews after the tournament is over.

Finally, even if players speak some minimal English, do you think that the interview will be more interesting? Let them speak what is comfortable and you should be able to read the emotion from body langauge and facial expressions. To me that is more significant than any canned speech someone has memorized. By forcing them to speak English you are going to get a very mechanical, canned response.

I do not see how this requirement will achieve the LPGAs goals.

[golf_junkie27]

If you really think that losing all the Korean players and replacing them with Americans that have personalities, even though they are not as talented, would be a bad thing for the LPGA then you

Did you even bother to look at the LPGA ratings before you babbled this? You are WAY OFF BASE. First, the LPGA television ratings have sucked for years. In fact, the ratings for the women's U.S. Open in 2007 drew a 1.4. This also happened to represent a 34 percent increase over ratings from 2003indicating that the ratings were PUTRID before then.

As for the Koreans "single handedly killing" the Tour, why is foreign television viewership up over 45 percent? Why are they airing the LPGA in 40 different countries and 135 million homes? Why are LPGA page hits up over 43 percent from that time frame? That's right, the Koreans. The same Koreans that you claim are killing the tour.

[Cizzle]

Did you even bother to look at the LPGA ratings before you babbled this? You are WAY OFF BASE. First, the LPGA television ratings have sucked for years. In fact, the ratings for the women's U.S. Open in 2007 drew a 1.4. This also happened to represent a 34 percent increase over ratings from 2003indicating that the ratings were PUTRID before then.

Errr, the Nabisco Major grabbed a

0.8 on Sunday when Lorena and Annika went head to head. Over/Under .4 when Ji-Yai Shin ran away with the tournament from Yani Tseng, Eun-Hee Ji and Yuri Fudoh in the British Open?

[golf_junkie27]

Errr, the Nabisco Major grabbed a

Cizzle,

Yes, that was my point. The ratings still stink. I wrote as much. However, as bad as they are, they represent a significant increase over 2003. Additionally, since 2005, the LPGA is now "right side up" financially in 80 percent of its tournaments. Sanctioning fees are at least $100,000 per event. As it stands, only four or so tournaments are in danger of losing their sponsorships.

[Harry Longshanks]

Truely sad. This reminds me of an old sign I saw in a history book.

I have my own problems with the policy, but language and race/national heritage are hardly the same thing. And elevating the issue with hyperbole to outright race discrimination only clouds the issue instead of clarifying it.

Do people really watch the tour to hear interviews or players give acceptance speeches? I never sit there thinking I hope Lorena wins this because I love her speeches. I watch to see good golf and I rarely watch any of the post interviews because the interviewers never ask any interesting questions.

The TV speeches are only part of the language-barrier issue. The pro-ams and the ability to effectively market the players and have the consumer identify with them are far more important.

I have played golf, soccer, basketball etc. with many people who do not speak English and we usually have a great time. I think sports really is a universal language.

Did you pay several thousand dollars to play with them because of their status as a top player in the sport, only to be ignored by them? Because that IS what is going on in the pro-ams with some of the foreign born players. They are using the language barrier as an excuse to go out on pro-am days and use those days as practice rounds instead of doing part of their job - entertaining the fans who paid big money to play with them.

I watch to see particular players. If the LPGA would do more stories so that we would know the backgorund of some of its top player that would do a lot for the sport. Did anyone one know Shin who won the British open lost her mother at an early age in a car accident and slept by her side in the hospital before she died?

Actually, I did. I think it was Judy Rankin who discussed in on-air.

If the LPGA is worried about sponsorship they should look at themselves in the mirror for not doing their job. The golfers in my opinion are providing very competitive and interseting golf to watch. The LPGA is not doing enough to make the game interesting to the general public.

And what would that be? What exactly should the LPGA do to make the game more interesting to the general public?

I guess the next move for the LPGA is to give asian players anglo names.

Actually, it is the Korean players who are doing that themselves. While I do not agree that it shold be necessary (and certainly not mandatory), those players recognize the importance of connecting with the fans. And LPGA fans are, in most part, English speaking. And that is why I suspect none of the Korean players will complain, nor will a single suspension be handed out. The players want to market themselves and succeed.

One other point is how well would you do in an interview, live, on tv, in front of millions of fans at the age of 19 speaking your own langauge let alone a foreign language. I think many would barely be adequate in their own language let alone speaking a foreign language. Look at Michelle Wie. She speaks three languages fluently, but does not really give spectacular interviews and Annika is just so boring and dull I don't even bother.

No argument there. I like Michelle Wie, but I am asonished that Nike or her personal agents have not strongly suggested that she hire a public speaking coach. Although, she has gotten minimally better this year. She doesn't ake my ears bleed any more.

Finally, even if players speak some minimal English, do you think that the interview will be more interesting? Let them speak what is comfortable and you should be able to read the emotion from body langauge and facial expressions. To me that is more significant than any canned speech someone has memorized. By forcing them to speak English you are going to get a very mechanical, canned response.

You mean, as opposed to the completely spontaneous answers they are giving in their native language through interpreters? I'm afraid not. Did you ever see the scene in Bull Durham where Crash teaches Nuke how to give an interview? Sports interviews are always going to sound like that no matter what language they are in. Players are protecting their own butts and trying not to say anything controversial.

I do not see how this requirement will achieve the LPGAs goals.

So, you disagree with the claim that players who speak the same language as the fans will help market those players to the fans? That players who entertain their pro-am partners is a good thing for the tour? (Have you watched Christina Kim - like her or not as a player, the girl KNOWS how to work a pro-am, and the fan base.)

Like I said, I have serious philosophical problems with forcing players to speak English. There is a reason that the U.S. has not, and will not, adopt an official national language. But to claim that the policy will not benefit the LPGA, the tour, and the players as a business - well, I just don't see how someone could argue that. I notice that you are in Korea. Wouldn't you agree that American players on the Asian Tour would endear themselves to the Asian fans if they spoke the native languages? Especially if they were winning a large number of tournaments? (And based on the Asian Tour website, English speaking players aren't doing too bad.) Don't you think Asian fans would identify with them more? The real issue is not whether this is a sound business decision for the LPGA - it is. The real issue is whether it infringes too far on the rights of the players. As I said in my first post in this thread, I think it does. But as an LPGA fan, I like it anyway.

[golf_junkie27]

The real issue is not whether this is a sound business decision for the LPGA - it is.

Harry,

Although I echo your sentiments, here is the problem I have with it. Since 1997, there has been an influx of 45 Korean players. This does not include the amount of players from other foreign nations. The LPGA had to see that this trend would continue and chances were that these players would start winning. For example, Se Ri Pak is a HOF and was dominant on the tour for a while. They should have been pro-active instead of giving the appearance of violating someone's right or taking away their livelihood now that they are successful. English was not a requirement and the threat of suspension is tough. Furthermore, from the reports that I have read, online and heard on the radio, most of these players can speak English. (Just today, I heard the VP of the LPGA mention this) However, they are shy and fearful of making a mistake that would embarrass them, publicly. (Personally, I wish athletes and anchors would take this much pride. I heard Scott Van Pelt use the word, "conversate." That's not even a word.)

[Harry Longshanks]

Harry,

I heard the same reports. Which is what makes me believe that this was never intended to be a serious policy. Instead, I think it's just intended to nudge the players to start speaking English when they already can. I used the example of Ichiro earlier. By all accounts from other players, and reporters, when he is not on camera, he speaks English exceptionally well. But pride and fear of "sounding stupid" keeps him from speaking on camera without an interpreter. I seem to recall the same thing about K.J. Choi. And honestly, I can't say that I would act any differently. (Hence, my praise for Danny Lee in the U.S. Amateur thread when he gave multiple interviews in English.)

In fact, the only American athlete I can think of who undertook learning a language where his sports biggest event was played, was Lance Armstrong. Of course, that may have been because he frequently lived and trained in France. As for the LPGA, I can't speak with any real authority, but I did read that they have a division specifically chartered with the mission to work with foreign players and help them with there transition, including learning English. The problem was (is?) that the players continued to speak only in their first language. As a result, the LPGA had to get more aggressive. And although I haven't seen it discussed, I doubt this was "sprung" on the players. I'm willing to bet there were several previous meetings and "warnings". I wish I could find the article on the complaints by amateurs at pro-ams. I did hear a story from the daughter of a big-wig amateur (executive employee of the title sponsor) in an annual LPGA pro-am about the Korean contingent's refusal to "entertain". {I also heard about when: (1) he got paired with Natalie Gulbis; and (2) how Cristie Kerr is not well liked on tour.} As for Scott Van Pelt, oh lordy I hope that was an attempt at humor. If not, the ESPN "Decider" should have a chat with him.

[gbk56]

I have my own problems with the policy, but language and race/national heritage are hardly the same thing. And elevating the issue with hyperbole to outright race discrimination only clouds the issue instead of clarifying it.

From what I understand they had a mandatory meeting for Korean golfers only in which they announced this policy.

The TV speeches are only part of the language-barrier issue. The pro-ams and the ability to effectively market the players and have the consumer identify with them are far more important.

I do not see how requiring them to learn English will remedy this situation.

And what would that be? What exactly should the LPGA do to make the game more interesting to the general public?

I wish I knew, but they should probably look to the NFL.

You mean, as opposed to the completely spontaneous answers they are giving in their native language through interpreters? I'm afraid not. Did you ever see the scene in Bull Durham where Crash teaches Nuke how to give an interview? Sports interviews are always going to sound like that no matter what language they are in. Players are protecting their own butts and trying not to say anything controversial.

So I guess either way the interview will be un-interesting and will not drive up viewership.

So, you disagree with the claim that players who speak the same language as the fans will help market those players to the fans? That players who entertain their pro-am partners is a good thing for the tour? (Have you watched Christina Kim - like her or not as a player, the girl KNOWS how to work a pro-am, and the fan base.)

I think that simply being able to speak minimal English will not help. There are plenty of people who speak English that can't give a decent interview. Someone speking minimal English will not help. You really need personalities. Forcing someone to improve their English to minimal English is not going to help.

I notice that you are in Korea. Wouldn't you agree that American players on the Asian Tour would endear themselves to the Asian fans if they spoke the native languages? Especially if they were winning a large number of tournaments? (And based on the Asian Tour website, English speaking players aren't doing too bad.) Don't you think Asian fans would identify with them more?

It is far worse here. If you cannot speak perfect Korean you are better off just speaking English. Anyway the cultures are very different so it is a little unfair to compare. I think this may be some of the reason why the Koreans may be reluctant to speak English. They feel as if they must speak perfect English or no English at all. Anyway, most Koreans love Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tiger Woods, Ronaldo, Torres etc. (last two are Premier League Soccer Players) but these athletes do not speak any Korean. Local sports here are popular and there are many foreign players in baseball, basketball and soccer. Most cannot speak a word of Korean. I do not think interviews are a big thing over here. I rarely seem them.

The real issue is not whether this is a sound business decision for the LPGA - it is.

I guess I just diagree with you here. Forcing someone to learn minimal English is not going to accomplish much.

[gbk56]

My take on this whole issue is that forcing someone to learn minimal English is not going to accomplish much.

I do believe that it is in the players best interest to learn English to better market themselves and the tour.

The US is the biggest marketplace so if you want to be successful, it is in your best interest to learn Enlish. If China becomes the biggest marketplace you better start brushing up on your Chinese.

[NBGC]

If you really think that losing all the Korean players and replacing them with Americans that have personalities, even though they are not as talented, would be a bad thing for the LPGA then you

I beg to differ. Please do some research, the LPGA is an International body, started and based in the U.S. You said, and I quote, "The Koreans are killing the LPGA viewership. The main audience for the LPGA does not want to watch a bunch of korean robots who never smile, show emotion, or speak at all for that matter, play golf and win tournaments." You are wrong. The main audience for the LPGA is the international market that's aired in over 80 countries. The Asian market now holds more than 50% of the LPGA's television market and revenues. Sponsor's love the Asian market and recent golf boom. Nike, TM, Ping, Callaway, and Adidas are not the one's punching the horses mouth. Not a single major golf sponsor has come out to back up the LPGA on this, and for good reason. There are a ton of resources on the web that confirm that fact, just do a search. Here's one I did and got in like 10 sec's. If you have the time, I'm sure you could find the exact numbers from the LPGA's television revenue's.

Question: Another debate topic is the Korean influence on tour. Do you see the rise of the Koreans as good or bad? Mann: Both. It’s been a negative thing because America wasn’t quite ready for this. Television audiences weren’t ready, the media wasn’t quite ready, and many of the Korean players weren’t ready. A lot of media training in English was needed, and that’s occurred. A lot of changes have occurred. The American public is embracing them more, and the ratings are improving when Koreans are leading. And the media has embraced them. Everybody has had to work harder, including the Korean players and their families. Question: The trend in recent years has been toward making the LPGA more international with events in Korea, Mexico and future events in China. What does that do to the brand? Mann: I am going to go with Commissioner Bivens: The LPGA is going where the action is. The LPGA is more popular than the men in Japan and Korea, and there are big television rights packages in those markets. It’s pure business, and right now it makes sense. Question: Yes, the biggest revenue source for the LPGA is Asian television rights, but the No. 1 draw in terms of recognition and sponsorship dollars is Paula Creamer, the wholesome American with the pretty smile and pink outfits. What does that say about where the tour is in terms of its positioning? Mann: Paula is doing all the right things for her and for women’s golf in general and for the LPGA. She is an ideal example of turning yourself into a brand. And she is smart, along with being pretty, rich and talented. That’s a good combination. http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/new...yhoo&type;=lgns What I find ironic is that Biven's cite's that she know's Asia is the money maker but chooses to alienate them anyways. Another quote from Galloway- Galloway denied that the move to force players to speak English was based on sponsors and said interest in the tour has never been stronger . http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s..._gam_mostemail Not based on sponsors? Yet again the LPGA leadership cannot get thier story straight when confronted and quoted. They keep doing roundabouts chaising thier tails in lies. Either it's sponsorship issue's like Biven's says, or it's not. Please explain how us nasty Americans aren't forcing them to learn our language? It was a mandated requirement, not a request. And as far as entertainment and ratings skyrocketing if the best players weren't playing and only cute blonde white english speaking barbies would, the LPGA's ratings are the highest they've ever been in the U.S. Let me put my original post intocliff's note's format for you. The LPGA targeted Korean players, not international. Only the Koreans were taken aside and told this in a meeting. No other race was officially notified until after this meeting and were done so by text msg/email. Had the LPGA held meeting for ALL races tis conversation wouldn't be happening. Would having them learn english help in all aspects, of course it would. Requiring them to learn it is another story. And yes, replacing the Korean's, Japanese, Chinese, and Thai players with barbies IS a bad thing for the LPGA. All Asian media's are boiling over with this story, how well do you think the LPGA would fare when they pull 60% of the LPGA's annual television revenue? And it's only an issue with Pro-Am's here in the U.S. You don't hear about international Pro-Am'rs complainging because they get matched up with an english speaking pro in Japan, Korea, Singapore, France, and China. It's only the old farts and thier pampered wives in the U.S. What's wrong with having an interpreter walk the Pro-Am? Does the rich old lady really need to know how hard life is for a 22 yr old girl growing up in a third world country? It's not like thier gonna share primping secrets and fashion.

[gbk56]

how can we make it a requirement for foreign born players to speak good english when our president can't even do it?

From what I've read it is for all tour players, even Americans. What I cannot understand is it is a requirement for all players, but it is up to the tours descretion who gets tested. If it is for everyone then test everyone. My guess is that they will test all the asian players and none of the european or american players.

Also if the ProAms are such a big deal they should also give personality tests too. This is entertainement. If you are shy like Annika was in the beginning of her career suspend her until she learns to be more personable. I hear some of the american players are not too personable during the ProAms and they can speak english. They should suspend them too. This is entertainment and business. On a serious note, if the ProAm people hate being paired with foreigners don't pair them with foreigners. Pair them with someone who would be better suited for them. I would think there are plenty who would not mind being paired with Anna Rawson or other lower ranked players who would be more pleasing to the sponsors. LPGA do your job don't put all the burden on the players. I am sure they would like to speak more English to enhance their career, but it is not that easy. I guess Moses Malone should have been suspended from the NBA too. I was a die hard Sixers fans but I never had a clue what he was saying.

[PEZGolf]

Link to story:

It is a GREAT IDEA, and about time. If a player does NOT like it, let her stay in her own country and play golf there. No one is forced to come here, but if she decides to come, she has to obey our rules, and English is the language we speak and write.

[iacas]

They should have been pro-active instead of giving the appearance of violating someone's right or taking away their livelihood now that they are successful. English was not a requirement and the threat of suspension is tough.

A few things here:

1) They were being pro-active, they just weren't being forceful. They were doing all they can to get these players "into the fold" in terms of speaking better English with their programs, their tutors, etc. "The keyboards were in English"? C'mon... 2) They're not violating anyone's right(s) nor are they "giving the appearance" of doing so. The LPGA Tour is not a right. 3) They still have until the end of 2009. The threat of suspension... in a year and a half, which is plenty of time to accomplish what they're being asked to do? Let's not forget, too, that the Korean influx happened largely on Ty Votaw's watch, not Bivens'. I've been hard on her, but she's taking steps now. Last year she talked up those "five points of celebrity." She massively increased efforts to get the foreign players to speak English (few to none availed themselves of that service), and so on.

What I cannot understand is it is a requirement for all players, but it is up to the tours descretion who gets tested. If it is for everyone then test everyone. My guess is that they will test all the asian players and none of the european or american players.

Oh, so let's be PC just so we can say we're PC?

Natalie Gulbis, Paula Creamer, Annika Sorenstam, and even Lorena Ochoa speak English just fine. No need to test them - you'd just be wasting your time.

On a serious note, if the ProAm people hate being paired with foreigners don't pair them with foreigners. Pair them with someone who would be better suited for them.

Then the "people who don't speak English" wouldn't ever get to (or HAVE TO) play in Pro-Ams.

LPGA do your job don't put all the burden on the players.

The LPGA's job is to increase revenue streams and all manner of other things for their members. This is how they feel they can best accomplish that. I would argue that this is an example that they ARE DOING their job.

[gbk56]

The LPGA is a private entity , not public, and as such can, in my opinion, set up any rules it wants, period. You don't HAVE to belong if you don't like the rules. Kind of like a Country Club. I also wouldn't find any issues with an english-speaking person going onto a foreign tour and being required to speak the language. I just wish they would require it at fast food restaurants.

Your opinion is incorrect. Read title VII

Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

[Guest]

There is NOT an official language in the United States.

[ClairefromClare]

Also if the ProAms are such a big deal they should also give personality tests too. This is entertainement. If you are shy like Annika was in the beginning of her career suspend her until she learns to be more personable. I hear some of the american players are not too personable during the ProAms and they can speak english. They should suspend them too. This is entertainment and business.

The pro-ams are a HUGE deal. And you're right--let's address it more comprehensively. In addition to language and personableness, there's basic manners. On the PGA Tour especially, a lot of those guys ignore their teammates and spend the entire round practicing putts. (Makes their caddies insane--they know what the pros' job is out there.) Let's ban that. In fact, let's just define what how we want a pro to behave in a pro-am and require it of everyone.

[gbk56]

Oh, so let's be PC just so we can say we're PC?

So then who do you test? Just foreign born players? Just foreign born asian players? Just players with parents who are foreign born. Once you pass the test can you be re-tested. From what I understand the LPGA will test at their own discretion. This really opens it up for abuse and makes it easy to target specific players without cause.

Then the "people who don't speak English" wouldn't ever get to (or HAVE TO) play in Pro-Ams.

If the ProAm sponsors do not like it why do it?

The LPGA's job is to increase revenue streams and all manner of other things for their members. This is how they feel they can best accomplish that. I would argue that this is an example that they ARE DOING their job.

I guess they just are not doing a very good job. I hope Samsung doesn't pull the Samsung World Championships off the LPGA tour and that other sponsors do not start looking to other places to invest their money because of this.