Legalizing drugs?

[immts007]

I'll continue to support those that want to quit... drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or junk food.

Absolutely! Compassion is the key. I'm with you 100%

FWIW, I quit smoking a year ago after a 25 year, pack a day habit. Two of my buddies and I made a pact. Well one of them just chewed tobacco - that's probably not quite as hard to quit

[joshtpa]

Coca Cola stands by and states they have "Never added Cocaine" to their beverage. Although most know that it was part of the cocoa plant before they chemically removed it years later.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-...ditorial.shtml
Prohibition and the war on drugs in this country are not the same thing at all.

[immts007]

Prohibition and the war on drugs in this country are not the same thing at all.

How are they different? Spell it out, please.

[iQuest Golfer]

Absolutely! Compassion is the key. I'm with you 100%

I'm glad to hear that you kicked that habit... now, what about the others? The alcohol, drugs, and fast food?

Might as well complete the intervention now, eh?

[immts007]

I'm glad to hear that you kicked that habit... now, what about the others? The alcohol, drugs, and fast food?

LOL. No drugs. Used to smoke pot a bit in High School and College, but when it stopped being fun, I stopped smoking.

Alcohol? Meh... I'm certainly not a teetotaler and could probably stand to cut down. Fast food? Once a month, if that.

[iacas]

How are they different? Spell it out, please.

As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't have to, and wasting time educating you on what I would agree is a VERY different subject matter is off-topic.

I'm very much a Libertarian, too, but when it comes to certain things I don't think "everyone should be free to do whatever they want" is truly the ideal. That's not Libertarian - that's Anarchy.

[ERC7.5]

Well one of them just chewed tobacco - that's probably not quite as hard to quit

I have to disagree.... I've gone through both of these disgusting habits and, luckily, quit both. Chewing tobacco was definitely more difficult to give up....for whatever reason.... I'm just glad I did!

[joshtpa]

As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't have to, and wasting time educating you on what I would agree is a VERY different subject matter is off-topic.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words there. Anarchy seems to flow better than when I used the term chaos.

[joshtpa]

I still do not understand your point at all in the matter. Your only argument is that it would free people from jail and save tax payers money because of less prosecutions. Yet in a different thread you seem to have no problem with tax hikes to anyone. (or I should say small biz and people in the 35% bracket.) You obviously vote strictly based on social issues and not economic ones and that is your choice. You said you vote one party down the ticket and again, that is your choice. I however do not vote one party down the ticket and take each candidate on their own merrit. The same way I do social issues. Like this one.

[Surefire]

Actually it is legal in the Netherlands and you can freely buy it in cafes in Amsterdam.

I'm not into any kinds of drugs, so I'm not massively interested in this topic. I would be interested if someone looked at crime stats etc between the US and the Netherlands to see what they found.

[immts007]

I still do not understand your point at all in the matter. Your only argument is that it would free people from jail and save tax payers money because of less prosecutions.

Birdieman, you know that is not my only argument. I think it is an unjust system, that unfairly denies people their

freedom to make a personal choice about what they do with and to their own body . I also argue that it would not only save tax payer $, but very likely generate substantial tax revenue. I also argue that the criminal status of these drugs feeds a criminal culture just like prohibition did. I also argue that it would be better and more humane to treat problems of substance abuse from a purely medical and mental health perspective rather than a moralistically punitive one.

Yet in a different thread you seem to have no problem with tax hikes to anyone. (or I should say small biz and people in the 35% bracket.) You obviously vote strictly based on social issues and not economic ones and that is your choice. You said you vote one party down the ticket and again, that is your choice. I however do not vote one party down the ticket and take each candidate on their own merrit. The same way I do social issues. Like this one.

Thank you for correcting your initial statement above. I haven't yet commented on the small business issue because I'm researching it. I certainly wouldn't want to see small business made unable to be profitable. My father was a small businessman (general contractor) - oddly enough, he had his most lucrative and profitable years during the Ford and Carter administrations when the taxes were supposedly so horrible no one could make a dime.

I think I've already said this, but I vote one party for pretty much ONE reason - the embrace of christian religious ideology into GOP governance and legislation. That is a MAJOR issue to me and I can not in good conscience vote for any candidate who stands on that platform for that reason alone.

[TheGasman]

I have to disagree.... I've gone through both of these disgusting habits and, luckily, quit both. Chewing tobacco was definitely more difficult to give up....for whatever reason.... I'm just glad I did!

Im with you on that. I chewed 2 cans of Cope a day for 12 years and quit 3 years ago. One of the tuffest things Ive ever done.

[TheGasman]

Its totally apples to apples. Alcohol is a drug. Period. .

Alcohol is a drug when its abused. I can go have a couple of beers with my buddies or a few manhattans with dinner and it is not going to impair the choices I make in my life. I cant go take a couple of bumps of speed or slam back some heroin with my buddies at lunch and then go back to work afterwards.

[immts007]

Alcohol is a drug when its abused. I can go have a couple of beers with my buddies or a few manhattans with dinner and it is not going to impair the choices I make in my life. I cant go take a couple of bumps of speed or slam back some heroin with my buddies at lunch and then go back to work afterwards.

Your first statement just isn't true and is your last is certainly debatable according to a Glasgow study of 126 users many of whom where found to lead productive successful lives as both business professionals and university students.

But defending or promoting heroin use isn't my interest, nor is promoting drug use of any kind. I stand by my conviction that the situation is horrible under criminalization and might very well be much better otherwise. But I feel very strongly that it wouldn't be worse, and that regardless, there would be substantial benefits to the economy, an overtaxed legal/penal system, and to individual freedom of conscience.

[joshtpa]

Birdieman, you know that is not my only argument. I think it is an unjust system, that unfairly denies people their

So where do you feel the money is going to come from to make the help a mental or medical issue? More tax dollars of course. If you think the taxing on drugs is going to cover it try again. Do you think the taxes on alcohol covers that now? Under your plan, a person should have the right to do anything to their body that they seem fit right? When does it stop? A person can go have a bender than cry to the govt to have some money to get some help. That sounds a lot like our welfare system that just DOES NOT WORK! But my point is, according to your logic, why have any laws unless it can cause harm to someone else? That is where the anarchy comes from. People have to make choices. Right now, if someone is a drug addict, they can treat it as medical and get help. The choice is THEIRS! Heck, how many rehab facilities are there? They also have to deal with the consequences that if they continue, jail time and legal action could be ahead of them.

[joshtpa]

Your first statement just isn't true and is your last is certainly debatable according to a Glasgow study of 126 users many of whom where found to lead productive successful lives as both business professionals and university students.

But you dont ever say in any posts that I have read, where your limits are, just that it should be a persons CHOICE! It is a persons choice RIGHT NOW. But there are different consequences at the end.

[TheGasman]

They also have to deal with the consequences that if they continue, jail time and legal action could be ahead of them.

Great point, a lot of the recovering addicts I know only stopped once they got in trouble with the law. Funny but looking at doing 6 years for something will sober you up real quick.

[immts007]

So where do you feel the money is going to come from to make the help a mental or medical issue? More tax dollars of course. If you think the taxing on drugs is going to cover it try again. Do you think the taxes on alcohol covers that now?.

The policy along with the reduced legal expenditures would likely pay for itself and then some. All available study shows that treament is up 10x more cost effective than prosecution and incarceration.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/fa...eration_nm.cfm

But my point is, according to your logic, why have any laws unless it can cause harm to someone else? That is where the anarchy comes from.

Just saying that doesn't make it so. Anarchy=absence of govt.

I think you know that is not what I'm arguing for. I do think that laws governing the actions of individuals should strictly be those that prevent citizens from directly impinging on the life or liberty of others, which includes any sort of theivery, malicious coercion, fraud, violence, etc.

People have to make choices. Right now, if someone is a drug addict, they can treat it as medical and get help. The choice is THEIRS! Heck, how many rehab facilities are there? They also have to deal with the consequences that if they continue, jail time and legal action could be ahead of them.

It's not a free choice, it's a coerced choice based on an imposed personal morality. And many are not give the CHOICE for treatment. Some go directly to jail and do not pass go.