Illinois Govenor Taken Into Federal Custody

[ScruffyScraper]

Corruption in executive positions can be really problematic.

Not so bad in legislative positions, I'd say.

Better to go with a crook of your own ideology than an honest guy on the other side.

Even a crook votes with his party on the major ideological issues.

The honest guy's sincere values may well be more repugnant than the crook's corruption.

That's my experience.

[PEZGolf]

Corruption in executive positions can be really problematic.

I have an incurable problem. I believe in being honest, and in supporting people who are honest. In the history of the US, my favorite people are George Washington (of course), Thomas Jefferson, the rabble rouser Samuel Adams, Ben Franklin (and almost all of the leaders of the War For Independence), Andrew Jackson, Honest Abe, Teddy Roosevelt, and Harry S. Truman (from Independence, Missouri--the "Show Me" State). I refuse to support someone who is willing to trade honesty for a political goal.

Did I like Ronald Reagen? Yes, with this caveat--anyone who is willing to subvert the US Constitution and engage in "arms for hostages" and do secret deals, and then let his guys take the rap is not to be admired. Did I like Richard Nixon? Please. He said, "I am no crook". Sure thing, Tricky Dicky, you just wanted to be "above the law", which means that you cannot be a crook since you are not subject to the law of the land. Did I like Bubba Bill Clinton? Please--he looked at you and me and said, "I have never had sex with that woman." Lying, and dishonesty are despicable, especially when the top elected leader of this country is guilty of those crimes!! I have no faith in any elected leader, and am awaiting Barack Obama's news conference to tell what he knows and when he knew it. Also, I want like to know the connections of Valerie Jarrett, Rahm Emanuel, and the rest of Obama's group with Blagojevich.

[Chilli Dipper]

I have an incurable problem. I believe in being honest, and in supporting people who are honest. In the history of the US, my favorite people are George Washington (of course), Thomas Jefferson, the rabble rouser Samuel Adams, Ben Franklin (and almost all of the leaders of the War For Independence), Andrew Jackson, Honest Abe, Teddy Roosevelt, and

Harry Truman was the product of a notoriously-corrupt Pendergrast machine in Kansas City. Can't judge a book by its cover. Just a thought.

[PEZGolf]

Harry Truman was the product of a notoriously-corrupt Pendergrast machine in Kansas City. Can't judge a book by its cover. Just a thought.

Good point. I had forgotten that. On my book shelf of "must reads", I have a biography of "Give Em Hell Harry", but I have not read it all yet.

[mako224]

What has bothered me with this whole thing is the lack of curiosity ofthe main stream media with regards to Obama.

Come on now, does anybody really believe Obama, the former holder of the seat and the president elect would not be in on how his seat in the senate would be disposed of???

When in the transcript the govenor states that all Obama is willing to offer is appreciation.......the media claims loudly (too loudly for me) that this is somehow exsculpatory evidence........BULLS**T.... That statement tells me that there was a negotiation. The media seems to want to skip over that part.

[mako224]

This is the change we get with Obama.......

Headline.



CHICAGOLAND: RAHM REFUSES QUESTIONS

[zeg]

Fisher, I'm sorry that the media is waiting for facts to come out before going on a witch hunt for you. Excuse me if I don't share your horror that an incoming administration, deep in the middle of preparing for a transition to office, is not ready at the drop of the hat to discuss in detail every possible contact with the governor. Throw in the fact that anything they *do* say is going to be spun and distorted (by the allegedly sympathetic media) and I think they're extremely wise to think before they speak. Any error will be taken as a sure sign of deception.

Besides, I don't think anything they could possibly say would satisfy you. If Obama really was unaware of the activity, what else could he have said?

[Chilli Dipper]

It doesn't surprise me that some people are hoping to turn this Blagojevich scandal into something that makes Obama look bad. Just like during the election campaign, the Republican talking points machine are playing the guilt by association card, trying to sell to the public the idea that this is the kind of dirty Chicago politics that one can expect out of an Obama administration. For guilt by association to work, though, there needs to be enough ambiguity between the known and the unknown to validate suspicions over a shady connection. The problem is that there are few things to come from a corruption investigation as unambiguous as a recording of an profanity-laden tirade given by the person under scrutiny over the fact that the person trying to be tied to this mess refused to offer any favors in exchange for hand-picking his Senate successor.

There's no reason for the President-elect to publicly respond to the Blago investigation with bluster. As it is clear to anyone who has read even an annotated version of the investigation report, there's nothing that suggests wrongdoing among members of his transition team over their involvement with the governor. It makes more sense for Obama's staff to keep their house in order and be ready to cooperate with Pat Fitzgerald than it does to make this an ongoing distraction in the media. Remember the "No Drama" Obama that didn't make leaks to the press during the election season? We're seeing a return to that right now. Personally, I'd wish the media would take two steps back from where they are right now and let the feds do their jobs without hindrance.

[mako224]

To the Obama lovers out there,

If it is found that Obama had knowlege of a negotiation to sell his senate seat or that his chief of staff Rahm Emanuel was involved in brokering a deal that Obama should step down. I just would like to get this nailed down before the details come out.

I just find it impossible to believe that Obama is surrounded by all of these corrupt people yet he is as pure as the wind driven snow.

It is his senate seat and he is the president elect. Do you really believe that Obama would not be a part of whatever negotiation would happen to give his seat to someone else???

Time will tell but this smells to the high heavens.

So please just answer my question my democrat friends, if Obama or Emanuel are found to have been involved in this should Obama step down?

[PEZGolf]

It doesn't surprise me that some people are hoping to turn this Blagojevich scandal into something that makes Obama look bad. Just like during the election campaign, the Republican talking points machine are playing the guilt by association card, trying to sell to the public the idea that this is the kind of dirty Chicago politics that one can expect out of an Obama administration. For guilt by association to work, though, there needs to be enough ambiguity between the known and the unknown to validate suspicions over a shady connection. The problem is that there are few things to come from a corruption investigation as unambiguous as a recording of an profanity-laden tirade given by the person under scrutiny over the fact that the person trying to be tied to this mess refused to offer any favors in exchange for hand-picking his Senate successor.

Since the stolen election in 2000, the Republicans have LOST the House, the Senate, and the White House. And some think that Sarah ("When Prime Minister Vladimir Putin comes to the US, he flies over Alaska, so I am now an expert in foreign affairs") Palin is qualified to be President? The party that Ronald Reagan built into a majority is now leadersless, and pointless!! And they still do not get it.

[zeg]

If it is found that Obama had knowlege of a negotiation to sell his senate seat or that his chief of staff Rahm Emanuel was involved in brokering a deal that Obama should step down.

If Obama was involved in the "sale" or in an effort to hide it, then he's done. When you start getting into "had knowledge," it starts getting too vague to say absolutely whether he should step down. It depends on what he knew, when he knew it, and what he did with the knowledge.

If Emanuel was involved, then the same applies to Emanuel .

I just find it impossible to believe that Obama is surrounded by all of these corrupt people yet he is as pure as the wind driven snow.

It's not clear to me that Obama is any more surrounded by corrupt people than any other politician, Democrat or Republican. He happens to be geographically close to this scandal, but I've yet to see anything concrete tying him to it. Speculation on a blog doesn't count.

Furthermore, demanding actual evidence that he was involved in some way before lighting the torches hardly counts as insisting he's "as pure as the wind driven snow."

It is his senate seat and he is the president elect. Do you really believe that Obama would not be a part of whatever negotiation would happen to give his seat to someone else???

I have no first-hand idea how these things work.

Every reputable source I've seen has indicated that Obama was only barely in contact with Blagojevich, if at all. The only actual quote I've seen indicated that at worst, Obama was known to be unwilling to play ball. Even going from that to the conclusion that Obama was directly asked to buy in is a reach. Look, the investigation is going on. Those unnamed parties in the released documents are known to the investigators and prosecutor. If there's a connection, it'll come out. There are clearly folks who want to see to it that Obama is perceived to be involved, regardless of what the facts say. These people have a political axe to grind-- it'll be better for everyone if we ignore the politicizing and let the facts speak for themselves. Unfortunately, that's not the way things work in this country...

[mako224]

Thats a good response. If Emanuel is nailed do you think Obama would bee doomed?

[Chilli Dipper]

I suppose so, but I don't think Emanuel's in any position to be nailed. He's the President-elect's chief of staff, and one would assume it only rational that the governor would allow Obama to hand-pick his successor, as Joe Biden had in Delaware. Of course, Blagojevich clearly does not possess a rational mind. Emanuel and Blago may very well have met to discuss an appointment (that's his job, after all), but that doesn't mean Emanuel was planning on or even expecting Blago to make those kinds of outrageous demands in exchange for Obama's choice of who takes his seat. The press is going crazy on pure speculation in the Blago investigation; They're not reporting facts at the moment.

[PEZGolf]

I suppose so, but I don't think Emanuel's in any position to be nailed. He's the President-elect's chief of staff, and one would assume it only rational that the governor would allow Obama to hand-pick his successor, as Joe Biden had in Delaware. Of course, Blagojevich clearly does not possess a rational mind. Emanuel and Blago may very well have met to discuss an appointment (that's his job, after all), but that doesn't mean Emanuel was planning on or even expecting Blago to make those kinds of outrageous demands in exchange for Obama's choice of who takes his seat. The press is going crazy on pure speculation in the Blago investigation; They're not reporting facts at the moment.

I agree with you. In a frenzy to create headlines and scoop the competition, the media tries to outdo each other in finding a "smoking gun". It is hard for some people to believe but when a corrupt official is busy "doing his thing", he or she will have communications, meetings, and contacts with many people, some of whom may be suckered into the web of deceit, bribery, and corruption. However, that does not mean that everyone is guilty. Jack Abramoff and Tom DeLay had contact with many Congressmen and women, and that does not mean that each of them should resign or go to jail. Not every Congressman who was a friend or ally of Mark Foley was a sexual predator. I do not know what imvolvement Obama and Emanuel had with the maniac Blagojevich, but I do have confidence in Patrick Fitzgerald, and I am sure that the truth will come out. Fitzgerald has already made it very clear that Obama was not involved. His word is good enough for me.

[EquipmentJunkie]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the FBI have tape of the guy basically telling an aide that Obama's staff should in essence "F**k off" because they would not "play ball." Apparently the only thing Obama would offer, him per Obama aides, in exchange for a just senate pick was an acknowledgment of thank and this of course was not good enough for him.

[mako224]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the FBI have tape of the guy basically telling an aide that Obama's staff should in essence "F**k off" because they would not "play ball." Apparently the only thing Obama would offer, him per Obama aides, in exchange for a just senate pick was an acknowledgment of thank and this of course was not good enough for him.

That statement by Blago tells me that Obama clearly was lieing whe he said there was no contact between him and his staff regarding this. It tells me that there was a negotioation and the Obama camp wasn't willing to pony up enough cash. Add that lie to the video of another of Obama's top aids being interviewed 2 weeks before the shiz hit the fan saying very matter of factly that Obama was working very closely with the govenor on finding a replacement for his seat. Don't listen to what Obama's words when he speaks listen to how he carefully parses his words as crafty lawers do. It is obvious him and Emanuel were in on this and the coverup is in full swing. They are just laying low while they all get their stories strait.

[zeg]

That statement by Blago tells me that Obama clearly was lieing whe he said there was no contact between him and his staff regarding this. It tells me that there was a negotioation and the Obama camp wasn't willing to pony up enough cash.

There are a lot of ways to interpret Blagojevich's statement, and I don't agree that it implies there was any improper involvement from Obama's people. I've not personally been involved in selling Senate appointments, but I'm pretty confident the process is a little more refined than an open auction. Obviously the would-be seller needs to be a bit more subtle than just asking for cash up front. It is quite plausible that hints were rebuffed so as to make it clear that there would be no further negotiation.

Don't listen to what Obama's words when he speaks listen to how he carefully parses his words as crafty lawers do. It is obvious him and Emanuel were in on this and the coverup is in full swing. They are just laying low while they all get their stories strait.

If every word that came out of your mouth was going to be studied as carefully as a president-elect's, you'd be wise to choose your words carefully as well. Obama

always speaks carefully, so there's nothing significant about his speaking carefully in this context. It's absolutely not obvious that there was any involvement from Obama's camp, and just saying it doesn't make it so. The transition team is a large organization and it's perfectly reasonable to spend a few days gathering information about possible contacts. That doesn't in any way contradict Obama's statement that he was not aware of any improper contact. Finally, given that Fitzgerald has specifically and repeatedly stated that Obama is in no way implicated, I find it curious that so many people are certain of the contrary. Please do your country a favor and submit all the evidence of this that you have to the FBI so we can get it cleaned up ASAP.

[EquipmentJunkie]

That statement by Blago tells me that Obama clearly was lieing whe he said there was no contact between him and his staff regarding this. It tells me that there was a negotioation and the Obama camp wasn't willing to pony up enough cash. Add that lie to the video of another of Obama's top aids being interviewed 2 weeks before the shiz hit the fan saying very matter of factly that Obama was working very closely with the govenor on finding a replacement for his seat. Don't listen to what Obama's words when he speaks listen to how he carefully parses his words as crafty lawers do. It is obvious him and Emanuel were in on this and the coverup is in full swing. They are just laying low while they all get their stories strait.

That makes no sense, by that logic if you come to me with a request to do something illegal or unethical I am automatically guilty. Nice try.