Charles Barkley's club specs???????

[Quinn07]

The last episode that I was able to watch had him swinging by NIKE Golf to get fitted for some sticks.

Perhaps this thread should be "Charles Barkley's Height?????" LOL.

[Gioguy21]

Hank Haney signed sponsorship with Nike in Fall 2007. Barkley is close to 6'4.5, I'm 6'4" and was eye to eye with him when I met him 2 years ago at of all places, a Knicks game...(dont laugh the tickets were cheap).

[ryohazuki222]

Interesting, he's 6'8" from the side mugshot but only 6'7" from the front. Does he get taller or shorter when he has his back to you?

I'm too lazy to look up evidence.... but isn't it the exact opposite? The longer you're getting, the FLATTER the clubs are getting.

Would appreciate some proof that I'm wrong in this if I am... as I don't like spouting lies :)

[mjgraniero]

I'm too lazy to look up evidence.... but isn't it the exact opposite? The longer you're getting, the FLATTER the clubs are getting.

Wish I had a website or more factual evidence but I believe I'm right. Flat and upright aren't the angle of the shaft if that's what you were thinking.

Try this- Take a 12" dowell and attach it to the end of your club. Grip the club at the grip, then slide your hands off the grip and onto the dowell. The further the clubhead gets from you the higher the toe will be, hence, a more upright lie. You can also look at the club specs for the titleist AP2 (or any other irons for that matter) http://www.titleist.com/golfclubs/irons/AP2.asp?bhcp=1 You'll see the lie is flatter (lower in degrees) in the long irons than the short irons due to the length of the shafts.

[ryohazuki222]

I guess I'm just misreading your post, because the example of the AP2s specs supports what I'm [trying] to say.

My post: The longer you're getting, the FLATTER the clubs are getting.

To me, that corresponds perfectly to your second post "You'll see the lie is flatter (lower in degrees) in the long irons than the short irons due to the length of the shafts."

So a 38.5" ap2 4 iron is 61* lie. A 39" ap2 3 iron is 60* lie. Going up half an inch the lie angle is 1* flatter.... right?

Your post: "Side note: Per my Pro, for every 1/2 inch longer the club the lie goes up one degree. So, if I had standard lie clubs but added one inch, it would push the lie to 1 deg up."

So by that logic shouldn't the 3iron be 62*, thus 1* more upright?

I feel like I'm missing something here.... I'll have to read up on this tomorrow after some rest :)

[mjgraniero]

I guess I'm just misreading your post, because the example of the AP2s specs supports what I'm [trying] to say.

I think I know where we're getting our "lines crossed." You're right that throughout the set manufacturers set the lie flatter as the shaft gets longer. My point is that if you take a 6 iron and add length, the manufacturer won't adjust the lie to compensate, therefore the lie actually becomes upright. This would be the case throughout the set because the manufacturer won't adjust the lie based on the added length of the whole set. They use the same standard lie regardless. So if my 9 iron has 64 deg lie and I add four inches to the shaft, the toe will be pointing more up at address and the club is likely to hit heel first when I swing, thereby causing a draw/hook.

If a fitter measures you on a standard length shaft and says you need 2 deg up then says you need a two inch longer shaft, that's incorrect. The lie should be measured once the proper club length is determined and the lie measured on a club of that length. When a longer club is used an upright lie may not be needed because the extra length may compensate.

[iacas]

My point is that if you take a 6 iron and add length, the manufacturer won't adjust the lie to compensate, therefore the lie actually becomes upright.

You're both right, and you both have it backwards - depending on which side you come at the problem from.

Within a standard set, a longer shaft necessitates a flatter lie angle. Yep. That's what ryohazuki222 is saying. But if you're adjusting a set of clubs to fit a player, the general rule is the longer the shaft, the more upright (by a degree or two, or three at most) you have to make the clubs. For example, let's say you add an inch to a six iron but keep the lie angle the same. In order to sole the club properly, you'd be lowering your hands too much or doing something else "wrong." (It's wrong because if that was your normal position you wouldn't need the inch.) So you raise your hands up to your normal posture and setup (the posture that necessitated adding that inch). At this point, the HEEL raises off the ground. The clubhead (or ball) doesn't move away from you - you're effectively raising the grip end of the club a little. The lie is too flat, so a clubmaker makes it more upright to compensate. It seems to me you approached the situation as if you took a regular-length guy and gave him a longer shaft. In that situation, with his same posture and his hands in the same place, the toe does go up in the air (and the club moves further away from him). But that player doesn't need the extra inch, so why would you give him a longer club?

If a fitter measures you on a standard length shaft and says you need 2 deg up then says you need a two inch longer shaft, that's incorrect. The lie should be measured once the proper club length is determined and the lie measured on a club of that length. When a longer club is used an upright lie may not be needed because the extra length may compensate.

It's really a chicken-or-the-egg kind of thing. Most fitters I know will fit length first, and then lie. Some will adjust lie only if you have an unusual impact position (Jim Furyk isn't particularly tall, but I believe his irons are quite a bit upright because of how close he stands to the ball), but 95% of the time or more, it's length, THEN lie as necessary - and 80-90% of the time, the lie gets adjusted too: more upright for longer shafts, flatter for shorter ones.

If you have a standard length, standard lie iron and you're digging the toe, and the ball is too close to you, increasing length might do it alone. If you have a std/std club and you're digging the heel, increasing the lie angle may do it alone. But what happens most commonly is that a bit of both is necessary. Imagine an 8-foot tall guy playing with standard clubs. He's playing the ball too close to himself but may not be digging the heel or toe - he's compensated for the length and lie by moving the ball too close to himself. After all, it's awkward to see a club with the toe or heel off the ground. So you increase the lie angle and the length and the problem's solved.

[mjgraniero]

Within a standard set, a longer shaft necessitates a flatter lie angle. Yep. That's what ryohazuki222 is saying.

I agree. I was calling the resulting lie to be too upright. Ryo was, I believe, stating the need for a flat lie. I think we both had the same idea in mind.

I also agree with your later statement. I was approaching it from the point of view of an individual holding a longer club than needed.. Thanks for chiming in!

[ryohazuki222]

Haha... honestly, I think I may be more confused (yet more knowledgable at the same time...) about all this.

So I'm a tall guy, playing longer and more upright irons. I'm going to buy a hybrid. I wanted to add an inch to it to keep it consistent with my longer clubs. If I add an inch to this hybrid. Will the end result be a more upright club or a flatter club or does it depend on other factors?

If you guys can answer that, I can easily tell whether I've been right or wrong with this whole thing... haha.

[mjgraniero]

Haha... honestly, I think I may be more confused (yet more knowledgable at the same time...) about all this.

Ryo- I can answer that for you. Go see a clubfitter! That's about all the input I can give after all our back and forth. Confusing as hell but I think it all depends on what point of view you're taking. Ultimately it sounds like you should add the inch to the shaft then get fitted for the lie. Most fitters can adjust the lie for you on the spot.