What do you think of the "No women members allowed" at Augusta

[flanagan]

Yes, the first African American member at Augusta was invited shortly after the Shoal Creek issue, and the second joined in 1997, but is no longer a member.

Really, no one cares about the woman thing and neither the networks or the Tour are going to issue ultimatums on it (the other networks would love for CBS to do something that dumb, and it will never happen collectively, they're not OPEC). It's over and OLD NEWS.

[iacas]

Another thing....I'm sure CBS makes a lot of $$$ from the Masters....but if they went to the Augusta Chairman & said....either accept a woman member or we will not show your tournament? & all he stations said the same thing.

I don't mean any offense by this, but I've gotta ask: why waste time even typing that? It's not gonna happen. Not only are the odds of CBS ever doing this about 0.0001%, but the odds of the other networks following along is about a trillion times smaller.

[juanrjackson]

I don't mean any offense by this, but I've gotta ask: why waste time even typing that? It's not gonna happen. Not only are the odds of CBS ever doing this about 0.0001%, but the odds of the other networks following along is about a trillion times smaller.

I'm not dumb...I realize it is never going to happen. People ask questions here all the time that are probably never going to happen.

But like I said..."If it quacks like a duck...it probably is a duck"

[denver_nuggs_15]

2) Why do you all care? i doubt that any of us will ever set foot on augusta, let alone to even watch it, much less play it.

A question was asked by the OP and we're trying to answer it. Some people also find their policy (or any discriminatory policy like it) to be morally wrong. No one's saying that it's illegal, just that it is morally wrong to some. Others feel that, since it's legal and their choice, the policy should stand. Obviously, that'll lead to debate.

3) they are a private club. If a store says, "no shirt no service" they are saying the same thing that augusta is saying.

Not exactly. Women cannot change the fact that they are women (minus any surgeries). Blacks cannot change that they are black. The Irish cannot change that they are Irish. If you walk into a store without a shirt, you

can change that fact. You can put on a shirt. It's a bit harder for a woman to stop being a woman.

4) If augusta were to allow woman, wouldnt that destroy the ambience (yea, i probobly murdered that word) that the Masters has? no other venue has Patrons, no other venue is at all like augusta. Its not like woman cant step foot on the grounds..

I don't understand how it would ruin the ambiance. Correct me if I'm wrong, but has a woman ever played in the Masters? I don't really get what's different about an all-male club vs. unisex club when a PGA Tour event is simply hosted there.

[Andrew Rice]

I have been fortunate to play there a number of times and each time I have been amazed at the number of ladies playing the golf course. There might be a 'no lady members' policy, but there sure is not a 'no ladies' policy.
My two cents.

[lumpuckeroo]

It's a private club and they can do as they darn well please. If "whomever" doesn't like it, they can start thier own "whomever" only private club.

[bogeymike]

Private clubs can do what they want. I joined my club because they had a reasonable policy towards everyone. That said I think it's ridiculous that the PGA glorifies augusta by having even a tournament let alone a major there. Augusta can do what they want but I don't think the PGA should be condoning their policies. I may be in the minority but I think it's ridiculous that in 2009 nonsense like this is tolerated by the PGA. They've worked hard to make golf more of a sport for the masses and this does not help. I'm sure there are other clubs with gender/racially discriminatory policies but this is the one that gets the attention. I know the masters is a "tradition" but seriously Augusta makes golfers look like a bunch of elitists.

[pittpanther]

Private clubs can do what they want. I joined my club because they had a reasonable policy towards everyone. That said I think it's ridiculous that the PGA glorifies augusta by having even a tournament let alone a major there. Augusta can do what they want but I don't think the PGA should be condoning their policies. I may be in the minority but I think it's ridiculous that in 2009 nonsense like this is tolerated by the PGA. They've worked hard to make golf more of a sport for the masses and this does not help. I'm sure there are other clubs with gender/racially discriminatory policies but this is the one that gets the attention. I know the masters is a "tradition" but seriously Augusta makes golfers look like a bunch of elitists.

Let's be clear - I don't think too many posters are saying Augusta cannot do what they want to as a private club. They can, and are free to discriminate against whomever they want, as long as they don't accept any government money or assistance of any kind.

However, what is disheartening is that, knowing these policies exist, some people will still do anything to become a member. That let's us know a lot about their "moral compass." Apparently people such as Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, will knowingly join a discriminatory organization just to play a few rounds of golf at a "special" location. Each of these guys probably gives away more than I will make in a lifetime to various social organizations and causes, but then have to turn around and join an organization like Augusta National. Is it that difficult to be rich, that you have to covet every little thing in the world that you don't yet have? Bill and/or Warren will feel like underachievers if they don't get this additional notch on their beltbuckle? Who are they trying to impress with "Yep, I'm a member at Augusta?" It just doesn't seem that hard to just "Do the Right Thing."

[Shindig]

Private clubs can do what they want. I joined my club because they had a reasonable policy towards everyone. That said I think it's ridiculous that the PGA glorifies augusta by having even a tournament let alone a major there.

The PGA has nothing to do with Augusta, other than that I think Augusta employs a PGA professional or two. The PGA TOUR , a separate entity, also has nothing to do with Augusta, other than that they recognize the Masters results as counting towards their tour results - as does the European Tour.

Even if all the tours ignored the Masters, held an alternate event, and didn't recognize the results from the tournament as counting towards their tours, everyone invited would still show up and play. It's a major. The majors are independent from the tours: each is run by an organization that does not operate a tour. Also, I'm going to doubt the claim that you joined your club because they had a reasonable policy towards everyone. Was this really a consideration for you in distinguishing clubs that you might otherwise have joined?

[pittpanther]

Also, I'm going to doubt the claim that you joined your club because they had a reasonable policy towards everyone. Was this really a consideration for you in distinguishing clubs that you might otherwise have joined?

Is it so hard to believe that someone might not want to join a discriminatory club?

Are most non-minorities so insulated (or isolated) that they don't even care about discrimination? When you see or hear about discrimination, do you just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh, well, too bad for them?" Or even worse, do you wipe your brow and say "Whew, I'm glad it's not me getting the raw deal?" Is it that hard to just "Do the Right Thing?" "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -> wrongly attributed to Edmund Burke, but appropriate to this thread nonetheless.

[GDWindowpane]

How long does it take to play a round at Augusta on a crowded Saturday? Do they have marshalls?

[Shindig]

However, what is disheartening is that, knowing these policies exist, some people will still do anything to become a member.

First, it's not clear that these policies exist in the first place. If you have evidence that they do, please present it. Second, we don't know what one is required to do to become a member - maybe Mr. Gates had to go through some sort of hazing ceremony?

That let's us know a lot about their "moral compass." Apparently people such as Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, will knowingly join a discriminatory organization just to play a few rounds of golf at a "special" location.

Yes, I'm sure

that's why they joined. Dedicated golfers, those two.

Is it so hard to believe that someone might not want to join a discriminatory club?

No, it's hard to believe that there was a club someone would have joined, and decided not to because of discriminatory policies against someone else. If you were invited to join a club with such policies, and decided against it, please let us know what the club was and what their policies are, and whether you'd join if those policies were reversed. I'd be impressed if this was even the deciding factor.

Are most non-minorities so insulated (or isolated) that they don't even care about discrimination? When you see or hear about discrimination, do you just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh, well, too bad for them?" Or even worse, do you wipe your brow and say "Whew, I'm glad it's not me getting the raw deal?"

With respect to ANGC: it's not clear there's any discrimination happening, other than the claims of some woman with nothing better to do a few years ago than get her panties in a bunch over some perceived slight. If you have evidence of discriminatory policies, please provide the evidence.

With respect to discrimination in general: to the best of my knowledge, I've never joined an organization that discriminates. I was offered membership in an organization with a history of discrimination, but I declined, although the history of discrimination admittedly wasn't a major issue (they've stopped their discriminatory policies, but I also don't agree with their current work or mission, either). Now, the university I attend has recently had an issue with some people in charge actively trying to decrease the African-American graduation rate. Maybe I should do the "right thing" and leave school and not finish my degree because of this?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -> wrongly attributed to Edmund Burke, but appropriate to this thread nonetheless.

So, Billy Payne's evil now? How does his moral compass compare to Gates and Buffett (as mentioned above)?

[Dpricenator]

I'm still not convinced that Augusta is descriminating against anyone. I have not be en able to find anything that says there is a policy in place that says "NO WOMEN". They are invite only. So I'm guessing there just aren't any women around that give a BJ worth getting invited for. They have roughly 300 members and none of them want to invite a women to join them as members. So what? I'm about to go to lunch with some guys from work. And guess what? We didn't invite any girls. I guess I'm just a sexist pig. Anyone who is acctully arguing that they are a bad club, because of their all male membership should take up a cause againts the coligiate Greek system. There are thousands of individual fraternaties and sororoities, nationwide, occupying the majority of college campus. Why are we crying about an old boys club, when the same practices are being glorified and taught to our nation's youth.
Boo F'n Hoo. Go put on your birkenstocks, eat a veggie burger and hug a tree. This is rediculous. How about you all turn the TV off when the Master tourney is on, and stand behind your convictions. Or better yet boycott the sponsors of that tourney. Of course you might have to do some major rearranging to your current golf bag.

[denver_nuggs_15]

However, what is disheartening is that, knowing these policies exist, some people will still do anything to become a member. That let's us know a lot about their "moral compass." Apparently people such as Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, will knowingly join a discriminatory organization just to play a few rounds of golf at a "special" location. Each of these guys probably gives away more than I will make in a lifetime to various social organizations and causes, but then have to turn around and join an organization like Augusta National.

Everyone's "moral compass" is different. Why is your compass better or more right than Gates' or anyone else's? If they feel that it's fine that a private golf club has discriminatory policies, I think it's morally wrong to try and force different views upon them. They aren't hurting anyone, so let it be.

Is it that difficult to be rich, that you have to covet every little thing in the world that you don't yet have? Bill and/or Warren will feel like underachievers if they don't get this additional notch on their beltbuckle? Who are they trying to impress with "Yep, I'm a member at Augusta?"

How do you know their inner thoughts? Everytime that I've heard them speak, they come off as very down to earth for being

that rich. Don't both of them want to donate all of their money to charity when they die? It would seem that they don't buy stuff to show off. They want nice things, they have the money, so they buy them. It sounds like capitalism to me.

Are most non-minorities so insulated (or isolated) that they don't even care about discrimination? When you see or hear about discrimination, do you just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh, well, too bad for them?" Or even worse, do you wipe your brow and say "Whew, I'm glad it's not me getting the raw deal?"

It would be a much different issue if Augusta's policy were, "Women cannot be member because [insert insult here]." That would bother me a bit. However, to my knowledge, this isn't the case. They simply seem to want an all-male club and thus have a policy of "No women as members". It sure as hell is discrimination, but is it bad? Is there harm intended?

Is it that hard to just "Do the Right Thing?"

Again, whose morals are more right?

[cocky_watchman]

One thing is for sure-woman players SHOULD NOT be allowed to play on the regular male USPGA, or european tour-this is a disgrace and really annoys me.

As for Augusta it's obvious that it is a pretty discrimintaing club, me personally I don't care-not as if Im ever going to get a game there.

[iacas]

One thing is for sure-woman players SHOULD NOT be allowed to play on the regular male USPGA, or european tour-this is a disgrace and really annoys me.

That's not the topic here, but I'll point out that neither the PGA Tour nor the European Tour specify that you must be a male. So there is no "regular male USPGA ... tour" to speak of.

Now, back to the actual topic at hand.

[apex53]

The PGA has nothing to do with Augusta, other than that I think Augusta employs a PGA professional or two. The PGA TOUR , a separate entity, also has nothing to do with Augusta, other than that they recognize the Masters results as counting towards their tour results - as does the European Tour.

Excellent post... I don't know why people can't understand that Augusta National is The Masters, just like the USGA is the U.S. Open and the R&A; is the Open Championship... Deane Beman created the Tournament Players Championship as the "fifth" major because the PGA Tour does not organize or run one of the majors... Whether people like it or not ANGC can run their club the way they want to...

[bogeymike]

The PGA has nothing to do with Augusta, other than that I think Augusta employs a PGA professional or two. The PGA TOUR , a separate entity, also has nothing to do with Augusta, other than that they recognize the Masters results as counting towards their tour results - as does the European Tour.

This is the last post I'm writing in this thread because this is rude and uncalled for. Yes I joined because of their policies. Other clubs in my area are extremely discriminatory towards women and it was important that that was not the case for my family. I do not appreciate the way you said that. You can doubt whatever you want but that's an absurd thing to say, you have no idea what I look for in a club or anything else. When you write a giant check to join somewhere everything comes into play in your decision and things like how women and racial minorities are treated is important to some people, particularly if you have a wife or daughter who wants to play golf or if I want to invite a black friend of mine to play without disapproving getting stares from other members. If you still don't understand you definitely have not been to very many private clubs. I wash my hands of this weirdness. I'm not even going to bother looking at this thread again as I've already wasted enough time with it.