Golfers vs. People Who Golf

[cbetofop]

I think in club comps the rules are paramount.

But I think in informal matchplays between playing buddies some rules can and should be relaxed, if only to speed up play, depending on how busy the course is.

Trouble with advice..... although I am off 25, there was a time it was 16 and it is frustrating to play with someone who declares an "about 14" and then basically ignores any difficult shot whilst telling you what your'e "doig wrong"!

I usually ask which club they belong to and what their exact h/c is, that cures it

[sooperstring]

You seriously contradicted yourself here in my opinion - if you play to play the game then PLAY THE GAME not "the way you're interpreting" the game. If you are playing a round with a group of guys and counting your STROKES (thus stroke play) then you are NOT playing against those guys but their score in relation to par (really you are playing the course if you want to get down to the facts) so how can any of them concede a stroke to you? They can't - it's not golf

In addition to golfing, I play a fair amount of pickup basketball (especially in the winter when the golf option is out). I've NEVER had as much friction over the rules there than I do when playing what is quite clearly an individual sport in golf. If basketball players were like "GOLFERS" (that is to say, not 'people who play golf') you'd have to call defensive 3-seconds, hand checking, moving picks, and your entire game would consist of free throws.

What would happen if someone got 6 fouls, and we're playing 5v5? Does one ad hoc team need to concede the game? Because there certainly are rules to the game of basketball. But there is nobody in a nontournament setting who cares nearly so much as in golf, and even then, it seems to seriously bother many people when their playing partners don't conform to a set of rules that was largely developed to keep scoring consistent in tournaments.

There is no argument (or debate over interpretation for that matter) I'm a Golfer - that person telling me to pick up my ball is just some dude on a golf course watching me play golf (not a golfer) trying to understand the game I'm playing. So to give you an answer - NO - I'm not picking up my ball just because some random dude told me "it's good" to pick it up.

Honestly, the real bone of contention seems to be that you have different expectations than your playing partner(s). But that doesn't automatically make you in the right because you are adhering to the "official" rules. If you're playing with three people who don't want to spend half their time on the putting surface watching people hole out, then concede the 1' putt and count it as a stroke. Or don't. But if you are paired with people randomly, it's only polite to come to some consensus about how you're going to play.

It seems to work fine in every other recreational sport, I don't get why people are so uptight when it happens to come to golf.

[mad max]

I carry an extra ball in my pocket. if I hit a shot ob, then I don't have to go into my bag to get a ball. I can just drop if it's allowed or hit a prov or 3 off the tee if need be without wasting time going into the bag..opening the box...and getting a ball..putting the box back... but I've always carried an extra ball in my pocket.

I used to do that but I found myself hitting 5 off the tee far to often. For me it is better to go back to my bag let the rest of the group hit and than hit my provisional or 3rd after I have calmed down a bit, but I am not the most zen like person who golf's.

[TN94z]

Honestly, the real bone of contention seems to be that you have different expectations than your playing partner(s). But that doesn't automatically make you in the right because you are adhering to the "official" rules. If you're playing with three people who don't want to spend half their time on the putting surface watching people hole out, then concede the 1' putt and count it as a stroke. Or don't. But if you are paired with people randomly, it's only polite to come to some consensus about how you're going to play.

So what you are saying is if you guys are running late playing a pickup game of basketball and someone gets fouled and has to shoot free throws, you just let them count the 2 points instead of wasting the time to shoot them?

[Greg]

I dont think you can compare golf to any other sport, as some try to with basketball or references to other sports. Golf has no timeclock officially, but if you play too slowly or are holding someone up you can tell. If its a short putt, Ill usually putt out just to save time as long as the other players dont mind, usually only play with a couple other people, and usually just one other person at a time. we usually let the person farther out go first, but that usually only applies to the drive, just because thats the ball we get to first. after that one ball may be on one side of the hole and one on the other, whoever gets to their ball first and is ready to go first goes then usually if its in question.

[Sowbug2000]

This thread is interesting....thanks for starting it!!

First, let me say - I am "someone who plays golf" that is aspiring to be a "golfer!"

I don't take Mulligans, DO roll the ball, count my OBs and usually hole out. The guys that I play with, most are better, but they "give" some putts, and definitely roll the ball....maybe the low handicappers don't. I would RATHER putt out. We play for big money! $2 - front, back and total. Will have the occasional beer.

I subscribe to Golf Magazine and Golf Digest, watch the Golf Channel - Big Break is awesome, and try to watch most PGA golf tourneys and play on Sundays.

I want to get better, try to play with more capable golfers and learn where I can. I feel like my "golf mind" is better than my abilities. But I digress...

I must agree that some "better" golfers are snobby, but so are some people. I enjoy playing casually competitive golf that won't bring you down too much with the Type A, OCD players that slow down and ruin your "day in the sun." I know that will draw criticism from some....

At the end of the day (and this long post), I'm out there to have fun....not play with some cheating, or non-cheating A-holes. And the most annoying thing to me is someone who is distracting on the green making noises, shadows or is harping about that last duffed shot they missed while you are trying to putt, giving you grief for asking them to get out of your vision while over a putt or someone who taps back your 4 footer saying its good.

Thanks for listening!

[fischman]

I see alot of the arguments in this thread are similar to the ones in the dress codes thread. I think alot of people confuse some things for others. As for me, some days I'm a golfer, others I'm a guy out playing golf, and others I'm a guy out there playing a game similar to golf on a golf course. When I play by myself I usually count everything and stick to the rules the best that I know them. When playing in groups of people I don't know, I really don't care whether they are cheating or not as long as they are pleasant. To me, it's more about attitude than how they play. I'll play as serious as is aloud without being a nuisance to the group. And then when I play with my one buddy, we have our own agreed upon rules that we use in regards to mulligans and the such. We usually drink and don't take it too seriously when we are out.

To me it boils down to the attitude of the people I'm playing with. Regardless of how they are dressed, whether they improve their lies or take a mulligan or two. I don't care about those things. Give me a nice playing partner who is respectful to his group, the golf course, and the groups following and he can do what ever he wants in regards to the rules as it doesn't affect my game.

Josh

[sooperstring]

So what you are saying is if you guys are running late playing a pickup game of basketball and someone gets fouled and has to shoot free throws, you just let them count the 2 points instead of wasting the time to shoot them?

Obviously the analogies are imperfect, but yes, if time constraints were as important to basketball as they are to golf, and everyone agreed to this ahead of time , I wouldn't see it as even vaguely problematic as long as the rule was applied equally.

If the majority of the players could routinely make 50% of their free throws, just forgoing the free throws and giving up one point seems like a pretty good solution, actually. I certainly wouldn't start an argument that we "weren't playing basketball" or look down on players who suggested this to keep games to within a certain duration.

[Greg]

a lot of it has to do with how well im playing that day. If im doing good, then I'll try to strictly adhere to the rules. If im doing poorly, then I might even stop keeping score and just use it as a practice round that doesnt even count.

[TN94z]

Obviously the analogies are imperfect, but yes, if time constraints were as important to basketball as they are to golf, and everyone agreed to this ahead of time , I wouldn't see it as even vaguely problematic as long as the rule was applied equally.

See that is the difference in opinions with us. To me golf is a game of getting the ball in the hole. If you pick up the ball before it gets in the hole, you haven't completed the game. It is just as quick to walk up and hit that one foot putt as it is to walk up and pick it up....if it's really as easy to make as you say it is. I mean you shouldn't be afraid to miss it if it's that easy, right? How much longer would it take to putt it? 10-20 seconds?

[sooperstring]

See that is the difference in opinions with us. To me golf is a game of getting the ball in the hole. If you pick up the ball before it gets in the hole, you haven't completed the game. It is just as quick to walk up and hit that one foot putt as it is to walk up and pick it up....if it's really as easy to make as you say it is. I mean you shouldn't be afraid to miss it if it's that easy, right? How much longer would it take to putt it? 10-20 seconds?

Starting where you ended, let's say it takes an extra 15 seconds per person. That alone is the difference between a 4-ball finishing in under 4 hours, and 4:15. Add a minute every other hole for someone to take a mulligan off the tee, and it's the difference between the round taking 4 hours, and 4:30. And that's before you get to hitting shots fat from a bad lie and taking 2 swings instead of 1, and whatever happens from a fairway divot.

For what it's worth, I play 80% of my rounds at a private club where tee times are spread out enough that there's no real difference between playing strictly by the book and playing 'if you squint, this is LIKE the book'. I do think it's more engaging to have to work out of marginal lies, and as my index can attest, I get in enough of them to know. But the times I play munis with friends from work or when I play with my local cousin and his friends (who are in high school), or truthfully even sometimes when I peace out of work mid-afternoon to get a round in before I go home, there are a lot of rules that go away. And it's just weird to me for people to take a tone of moral superiority because they would NEVER lower themselves to play the game as a majority of people do, even when they're paired in with a group where the other 3/4 plays that way all the time. We're not all on a tour. If you want those <4 hour rounds, you can't also be judgmental towards people who are high cappers and play in a way that lets you get it in.

[TN94z]

Starting where you ended, let's say it takes an extra 15 seconds per person. That alone is the difference between a 4-ball finishing in under 4 hours, and 4:15. Add a minute every other hole for someone to take a mulligan off the tee, and it's the difference between the round taking 4 hours, and 4:30. And that's before you get to hitting shots fat from a bad lie and taking 2 swings instead of 1, and whatever happens from a fairway divot.

I play with a guy that shoots in the 100s every time he goes out. He plays by the rules. he counts every stroke and he makes that 1 foot putt every time. We have never taken that long to play a round. This goes back to, you can be a very high handicapper and play fast still playing by the rules. I have just as much fun playing with a group of guys that can't break 100 as I do playing with guys that are scratch. Golf is fun for me no matter what. But playing with golfers or people that play golf either one, that have chips on their shoulders are the worst. I don't want to go out and play and feel bad because I score better than my playing partners. The first lesson I learned when I started playing golf is to play by the rules...I was told that you will never get better by cheating yourself. in our groups, if we are playing for money or whatever and everyone wants to have gimmies, then I am game. But I shouldn't be looked down on for putting out instead. This topic that everyone is arguing about goes both ways...I have experienced it. Hey, I am going to play by the rules and I am going to hole every putt. If anyone that plays with me wants to pick their ball up, I could care less. Play how "you" want to play. That is what this game is all about. I am not playing against you or anyone else. I am playing by against myself. And IMO, to say that someone thinks they are on a higher level or look down on higher handicaps is just as bad as the people that actually do look down on high handicaps. High handicappers that are slow and never let you play through are the ones that stop you from getting those quick rounds in. It has nothing to do with picking up putts, or fat shots, etc...We can play slow and easily get in under 4 hours. I played in a tournament today and made it in in 3.5 hours, in a tournament!

[JoelDuffer]

As stated by others, at this point I guess I am a person that plays a game that resembles GOLF. My scores havent changed much this year but I am playing much better than last year. I know that I am not playing by the sacred RULES OF THE GAME but I guess I am only cheating my self. I remember my bad shots and my good ones. I play for the fun and love of the game.
I know that some one will blast me for this next one.
For me, at this point, if counting every shot/swing I would need bigger boxes on the score card. I have been known to use a foot wedge or just drop in a better lie just to get on with the round. I guess I dont really call it cheating but to the purests it is. So be it.
But that said, I would love to play with some of the posters here and would play a mutualy agreed to scored game, however tight or loose to the rules just to be playing GOLF, by any definition.
Happy Golfing or what ever you chose to call your game.

[TN94z]

As stated by others, at this point I guess I am a person that plays a game that resembles GOLF. My scores havent changed much this year but I am playing much better than last year.

And this is where I think there is a big difference. I think that the mid-low handicappers are playing more by the rules because once you get down to that level, you start really wanting to improve, etc...and keeping an accurate score is the best way to see what areas you need improvement.

High handicappers are more loose with the rules because of their skill level, and I don't really see anything wrong with that. Having fun is the number one priority at this point. Like I said, I play by the rules because I want to get into tournament golf play. I don't really care what anyone else does as long as they aren't playing in a tournament against me