Don't Take Lessons from Edwin Watts

[iacas]

Wow... someone call the police, because I just witnessed several robberies.

[kpaulhus]

I think the women had a great swing before hand lol

[David in FL]

Good God. They're actually publishing that as evidence of their "quality"?!

[RIduffer]

I think the women had a great swing before hand lol

Agreed. Probably a million reasons not to do it, but I think it's a pretty bad-ass looking swing.

[goblue107501]

I sure am glad we have a great instructor in my area.

[iacas]

Good God. They're actually publishing that as evidence of their "quality"?!

Seemingly, yeah, that's what they think they're doing...

[david_wedzik]

The lesson with Arnold P. is extremely disheartening. My guess is that the pros there believe in what they are telling people but have not been willing to truly learn about the subject at hand... which is golf instruction, of course. Unfortunately, this is far more common than many people know and is a real problem.

This got me thinking that something needs to be done and that students out there need to start by asking better questions of potential instructors. To put a list like this together is not as easy as it would seem. There are a lot of questions I could think of but many would have answers based on opinions. To be a truly qualifying group of questions they need to have answers based in fact and any instructor worth taking a lesson from should be able to answer the great majority (if not all) correct. So...here goes...this list may change in time but this is what I am starting with. If, when considering who to take a lesson from you would ask these questions it would be a good start.

The 8 Questions

1.
Q: What gives the ball its initial direction – clubface or path?
A: Clubface – see Trackman data

2.
Q: If a golfer wants to hit the biggest draw – would he/she move the weight the furthest forward or the furthest back?
A: Forward – players whose weight is the furthest back are the biggest slicers of the ball.

3.
Q: Does the spine’s actual angle taken at address (flexion from the hips) stay that way throughout the backswing…or does the spine extend/straighten as the hips come out of their anterior tilt?
A: The spine goes from flexion to extension as the hips come out of their anterior tilt. The spine tilts to the left at the same time the extension is happening. This is how the golfer stays in their inclination to the ground.

4.
Q: The hand path is more a) circular or b) straight back and then down the target line in order to keep the clubhead online longer?
A: a) circular – golf is not croquet – we play to the side of the ball on a tilted angle and the circular arc is a byproduct of that.

5.
Q: Which is a true commonality of all the game’s greatest players: a) grip b) posture c) hitting the ground in front of the ball
A: c) hitting the ground in front of the ball – the game’s greatest players have played with grips and postures completely across the board but they all hit the ground in front of the golf ball. By contrast the poorest players hit the ground in a wide dispersion behind the ball. It is also worth noting that many average or poor players have better grips and setups than certain touring professionals.

6.
Q: To be sure and square the clubface a golfer should a) feel a conscious release of the club through a rolling and rotation of the wrists and forearms b) feel passive wrists and forearms to hold the club square to the arc the club is swinging on
A: b) feel passive wrists and forearms to hold the club square to the arc – a conscious release is something that, in itself, tips the club shaft out and over the top causing the golfer to hit too much in to out…or across the ball.

7.
Q: During the backswing the right handed golfers right knee should straighten (not lock but become straighter) to allow the hips to turn completely and on a tilted angle? True or false
A: True – if the golfers right knee stays flexed the hips cannot turn to the proper extent and they do not maintain their tilted angle. It is at this point that the arms lift excessively and the beginnings of an over the top motion are in place.

8.
Q: The golfer’s lower center of gravity (hip center) must be in front of the golf ball (assuming a baseline ball position) at impact – True or False?
A: True – don’t take my word for it – simply watch video of the game’s greatest players.

I truly hope these help somewhere along the line!

Dave

[Vance87]

This is why I don't want to take lessons. I just want to try and figure it out on my own. Which might be the hard road, but at least there's no chance of a teacher screwing me up :P

[david_wedzik]

8.

Ready to add a 9th....

Q: Do you make use of video? Yes or No A: Yes...don't buy into the fact that an instructor "has a great eye"...video is a must!

[RIduffer]

thanks david wedzik for posting that. speaking as someone new to the game, it's really frustrating knowing that many of these so-called experts might be doing us more harm than good.

my first golf instructor told me that absolutely my first move from the top of the backswing should be hands/arms. Said I should restrict my hip and lower body movement altogether. Now maybe he was trying to slow my over-active lower body or something, but he never explained why, and as you might guess I really struggle with the downswing transition. Every decent golfer I've played with, and asked for advice, says my swing is just all arms. No lower body or hip action. Hmmmm.

Also took a lesson recently and the teacher was harping on the right knee flex thing. I've worked alot on keeping the weight on the inside of my right leg, and don't have a noticeable sway, but he wanted the right leg dead still. Guess that might not be great advice either. Ughhh.

[skagen]

there are a lot of "wow that's just wrong" but i haven't read any posts outlining what's wrong. The old lady had a horrible swing, but her plane was better after the laser. I went for a swing analysis, i was taking it too far inside and crossing the line, made me aware of my swing plane, but from the videos, could you outline what's wrong with it instead of just saying that it was horrible. I'd like to know the flaws of the laser system since i'm searching for instructors and edwin watts is fairly inexpesive. Golftec is too expensive.

[Brakkus]

Are we intelligent enough to build a swing of our own from the mass of information on golf?I think the answer is yes.Do we need someone to structure a swing for us or can we allow our own bodies to teach us and tap into awareness and feel.
I am a massive fan of Tim Gallwey and have read both inner game books on tennis and golf.I must say I really haven't found golf frustrating or hard.Yes my handicap indicates that my game needs lots of work to be truly consistent,but I learn quickly and feel that I really can work out what to do with my swing.
If I focus on a particular area and swing having a clear picture of how I would like my body to perform,changes can be made effortlessly without interference and I don't need a teacher.
Sounds arrogant but I have respect for the instrument that operates at a far higher level than any instructor,my own body which learns without my control.

[iacas]

Sounds arrogant but I have respect for the instrument that operates at a far higher level than any instructor,my own body which learns without my control.

I think it's more a matter of naivety than arrogance.

I think a lot of people - myself included - can get to a reasonably proficient golf swing being completely self-taught. I was for years, but I'd have long slumps and I had to work constantly, and even playing at my best I was at a ceiling. Qualified, good instruction isn't a replacement for learning on your own, it's a supplement. A synergy. A catalyst. An aid, a boost, whatever.

[Brakkus]

I think it's more a matter of naivety than arrogance.

Appreciate the reply I would say self belief rather than naive,depending on how much you truly believe you can learn,and how dedicated you are to experiencing your swing as opposed to relying on instructions from someone else.

Don't get me wrong I have learned much just from watching high level golf played by pro's and video sources where I can see a motion,but there are diminishing returns because everyone writes written words on the golf swing which to tell you the truth sometimes I just don't understand and don't want to try. I just believe golf can be simple if you want it to be.It's performed by the body which can be learned without taking a more cereberal approach. I'm not dismissing the idea of an instructor,because they have value,I have instruction books in my home,but rather it's the way I would like to be taught.It would be less about do this do that in your swing,but rather experiencing feels and seeing movements visually.These are better for the body to learn,pictures above words,awareness over commands. If I could find an instructor who took the premise that he would help me discover my swing as opposed to teaching me one, than I would take that.It seems to me that no one can agree,which is where I think if you are strong enough and capable of knowing your own swing then good golf can be realised, and it isn't some tantalising mystery which always seems to be out of reach ,because of having been told by every expert in a book,on the internet,or in a lesson that your swing is never good enough and needs to be changed to make it better.

[skagen]

Again what's wrong with what they are teaching? they're using the laser to follow a one plane swing. What's so wrong with the videos?

[iacas]

Again what's wrong with what they are teaching? they're using the laser to follow a one plane swing. What's so wrong with the videos?

Well, for one, did you see the video where the guy was being told to shift his weight? His head moves six inches backwards on his backswing with the "weight shift." FAIL.

[skagen]

Well, for one, did you see the video where the guy was being told to shift his weight? His head moves six inches backwards on his backswing with the "weight shift." FAIL.

I watched the video and yeah his head moves, but the instructor didn't say it's cool to move (unless i missed it), in fact kept on saying he's dipping his head. He was helping the guy get the shoulder to the right thigh, probably just trying to focus on weight shift and then work on keeping the head still once that's done. I didn't see anything ridiculous. He's still practicing a new move. I'm curious what else is so wrong with these instructions. I'm considering edwin watts cause it's cheaper than golftec, so i hope you humor my curiosity.