Push Fade?

[14ledo81]

Ok, I have a problem with this terminology. I understand that a push is accomplished with an in to out swing path and club face square to the path. A push fade is done with the same swing path and a club face open relative to the path. I have no issue with this, but what about a slightly out to in swing path, with the club face open relative to the path? Both of these shots would start out right and spin more to the right, but both have completely different swing paths. I think the two shots should be called something different from each other, so people could easily discern between the two in conversation.

[plugged]

what about a slightly out to in swing path, with the club face open relative to the path

What would the flight path of such a shot be? I am assuming that with such a severe oblique angle of the clubface relative to the swing path that you would end up with a strong slice with very little distance, correct?

[14ledo81]

If the path was to much from the outside than yes I believe the shot would go as you described. That is why I said slightly out to in.

[iacas]

Ok, I have a problem with this terminology. I understand that a push is accomplished with an in to out swing path and club face square to the path. A push fade is done with the same swing path and a club face open relative to the path. I have no issue with this, but what about a slightly out to in swing path, with the club face open relative to the path? Both of these shots would start out right and spin more to the right, but both have completely different swing paths. I think the two shots should be called something different from each other, so people could easily discern between the two in conversation.

You accurately described a push-fade. Good job - a lot of people don't get it. Good players tend to hit push-fades because they're still hitting the ball before the low point of the swing. The push is from the clubface (typically described relative to the stance) and the fade is from the swing path relative to the clubface.

Your second shot, out-to-in with an open clubface, could - depending on the clubface angle, be anything from a pull-fade to a push-slice. An example of a pull-fade: swing path 10 degrees outside-in, clubface 5 degrees closed relative to target (5 open to swing path). An example of a push-fade: swing path 2 degrees outside-in, clubface 1 degree open relative to target (3 open to swing path). An example of a push slice: swing path 10 degrees outside-in, clubface 5 degrees open relative to target (15 open to swing path).

[14ledo81]

The push is from the clubface (typically described relative to the stance) and the fade is from the swing path relative to the clubface.

This helps out a bit. I had always thought that the push part of push fade was describing the path.

[iacas]

This helps out a bit. I had always thought that the push part of push fade was describing the path.

We can all agree a push is a ball that starts to the right of something. A good push-fade (Trevino, Nicklaus) starts left of the target but right of their stance line (and right of their swing path at impact, too, since ideally that's basically the same as their stance line).

Maybe other people use the term differently - if I don't clarify specifically, I mean push/pull as relative to the stance.

[14ledo81]

Erik, The point I was trying to make was that with two different swing paths in to out and slightly out to in, somewhat similar results could be had. This could confuse people (myself) about how I actually swung the club.
I first thought of this when I was hitting foam balls in my living room (yea my wife is getting sick of me tryin to take divots out of the carpet). I thought and felt as if I was swinging from the inside, but at times the ball would still hit the wall to the left of where I was aiming. At first I thought I was coming over the top and pulling the ball, but after awhile I realized that I still could have been coming from the inside just with a really closed (relative to the target) face.

[iacas]

Erik, The point I was trying to make was that with two different swing paths in to out and slightly out to in, somewhat similar results could be had. This could confuse people (myself) about how I actually swung the club.

OK, first thing's first: the ball flight laws aren't guaranteed to work with a foam ball. They probably start on the line of the club path much more than an actual golf ball.

Second, you can't get "the same thing. If you hit a push-fade with an out-to-in swing then the ball's going to curve a heck of a lot more than a push-fade with an inside-to-out swing. A push-fade with an out-to-in swing is most often a full on slice.

At first I thought I was coming over the top and pulling the ball, but after awhile I realized that I still could have been coming from the inside just with a really closed (relative to the target) face.

Who knows... foam balls don't react the same as a golf ball. I wouldn't want to guess.

[FHopper]

I have hit a lot of foam balls over the winter and they deform to an extreme degree and reform slowly. Therefore your ball is ovoid after impact for quite a while, (relatively speaking). They are great if you hit them square and exaggerate every "flight Characteristic" you impart on them if you do not hit them square.