Developing feel by not doing any video analysis of my swing for 30 days.

[zenchili]

I've been informally working with a pro who I really respect. He gave me a challenge. No swing analysis, no swing videos, for 30 days. Now let me give you a bit of background. For the past six months I've been doing a lot of video analysis, and I think it has helped. So for me, it was difficult to give up the video for a month, but in the end decided that I had to stop being dependent on it and accepted the challenge.

Around the same time that he recommended this, I've been talking to another pro in Dallas, who learned the game from Jimmy Demaret, Jackie Burke and Ben Hogan. I told him about the challenge I received and he thought it was a great idea too.

I've been doing it for a few days and I've been seeing really good results. During these few days I have not taken any video. What is happening is that my feel is becoming more fine tuned. I'm becoming more able to see the shot I want to hit and hit it. The pro in Dallas has been coaching me through this process and it is really simplifying the game for me. I think we make the game so much more complicated than it really is.

I also decided to extend the challenge. I decided that for that month, I'm not using any tips from the internet, magazines, or golf channel. I really just want to focus on developing feel and I think that technology, while good, can lead to being too technical. Playing golf, I think, shouldn't be so much about the swing, it should be about playing the game, and I think developing great feel is a big part of that.

[Zeph]

At a handicap 8, your fundamentals are most likely good, so you can work on details without video. The problem is that most golfers don't have good fundamentals, and have no clue how their swing looks. If you are going to feel yourself to a good swing, you are in for a long ride. For a 20 handicapper, that would involve trying every possible combination of movements and only have the ball flight to judge from.

You can get too mechanical, but to base all training and work on feel is not something I would recommend. Golf is about the golf swing, there is no way around that. You can't get the ball in the hole without swinging at least once on every single hole.

[kfowler]

I think the challenge has a lot of merit especially if you're thinking too much during your swing. I'm going through that a little on right now. On the flip side though, I have an issue where my hip comes off it's back line during the backswing. I really need video to see if I'm doing this correctly or now. My feel has been very misleading. That being said, I think what you're doing at your stage will work really well.

[davbrucas]

Maybe the golf pro is just tired of working with him? ;)

[Chief Broom]

Somewhat germane to the point...
I'm trying to learn to be more openminded about what a good repeatable golf swing is supposed to look like. I play in a league with a lot of older guys and most of them have golf swings that tend to be more unorthadox. These are decent golfers too, but their swings are anything but text book. While much of this is no doubt due to compensations that have to make because of flexability issues a lot of it also has to do with in the past people approached golf in a more individualistic way. A lot of this came about because of being self taught or the fact that teaching pros in the past weren't as homogeneous as we see today. Today teaching is all about learning a highly technical swing (a'la Tiger). While I don't discount technical proficency I am becoming much more openminded about adopting what works. This is where I think trying to imulate a technically perfect swing can get you into trouble. For me lately I've been struggling with the driver. I've adopted a stack and tilt swing and while it has helped me with my overall ball striking skills if anything I've seen my performance with the driver deteriorate severely. The past two weeks I've taken a drastically different approach with the driver that is paying big dividends in both power and accuracy. While I'm still incorporating S-n-T principles (weight forward, etc.) I'm learning to stop worrying about hitting classic positions throughout the swing and instead changing it in ways that are decidely unorthadox. As a chronic slicer I've backed away considerably from the ball. This feels weird but it's helping me come at the ball from the inside. My balance also leaves something to be desired in my follow through, but it's hard to argue with a better result that is proving to be much more repeatable (plus being in a new position takes some getting used to).

Long story short I'm learning that a good swing for me may not look like a good swing for someone else. What really matters is the end result and whether or not your swing can be consistant for you. I've always been consistant, the ball always went hard left to right, but now I'm learning to be consistant moving the ball right to left with my shorter clubs and straight or slightly right because of a push with the driver. I haven't solved all my problems but it has been helpful for me to lose my preconceived notions of what I should be doing in favor of something that just flat out works better.

[Andrew Rice]

I must commend your instructor! None of the great players ever got to where they got to with constant video "surveillance". Once you have something that is relatively functional in place then it is time to go out and learn how to play with it.
If you saw Dustin Johnson's clubface and arm position this weekend at Pebble very few of us would have predicted the outcome, but that is an illustration of how function outplays form any day of the week!
BTW - if you look at old pictures of Tom Watson at the top, his wrists and clubface were not that far from where DJ had them.
Forget about perfection in the swing and start working on what works for you. Giving up the vids will help you do that sooner than you think.

[zenchili]

I guess I'm not really surprised by the differences in responses to the post.

My instuctor is not tired of working with me.

Anyway, it sounds like some people think like this is a good challenge if you already have sound fundamentals. Maybe, but this is the way my instructor will also start teaching beginners. He will have them learn to feel their hands and understand the role of their hands in the swing. No video. No swing positions. And I think he has had quite a bit of sucess. This is also how he was taught the game by the players mentioned above, Jimmy Demaret, Jackie Burke and Ben Hogan.

Other instructors that I have talked to about this challenge love it too. But there are a few different philosophies in teaching today. I think very technical instructors may reject this challenge and want to keep their students reaching certain positions. Hank Haney for example is a very technical positions type of teacher. See "The Haney Project" first season with Barkley. I think TGM instructors though are probably the most technical as the TGM is written basically for engineers.

A lot of your old school instructors Claude and Butch Harmon, Jim McClean, Harvey Penick were all feel instructors. No video, or very rarely.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way to teach, I think different students learn differently. I learned the swing in a very technical way, but I am throughly enjoying feeling it. I don't think I'll entirely drop technical or video, I think I will just use it differently once this challenge is over for me. I have 26 days left.

One of the things I'm seeing, is increased creativity and shot making. Rather than standing by the ball and making a swing. I really visualize the type of shot I want to hit, I feel it in my hands, and I'm able to execute it more easily than before. And I don't have to have any swing thoughts, other than remembering the feeling I want my hands to have. I think that's a pretty cool way to play golf.

[Zeph]

I would not want to rely on my feel when hitting a draw or fade. If I can get a solid, repeatable swing, shot making is about setting up differently. Tiger Woods may be good enough to draw or fade at will, but I don't have his talent. Remembering the feeling is a swing thought! Everybody play feel golf. Nobody got obstacles around them which force them onto a path. The mechanical swing is one you use when making a swing change. Once you learn the feeling of a correct movement, you must use that feeling to work on. Every now and then you should use video or someone to check if you are still in the right place, so you know that the feeling you are incorporating is the right one.

[zenchili]

I would not want to rely on my feel when hitting a draw or fade. If I can get a solid, repeatable swing, shot making is about setting up differently. Tiger Woods may be good enough to draw or fade at will, but I don't have his talent. Remembering the feeling is a swing thought! Everybody play feel golf. Nobody got obstacles around them which force them onto a path. The mechanical swing is one you use when making a swing change. Once you learn the feeling of a correct movement, you must use that feeling to work on. Every now and then you should use video or someone to check if you are still in the right place, so you know that the feeling you are incorporating is the right one.

Hey Zeph,

That's an interesting idea but it's assuming that video is more correct than feeling. When I'm talking about shot making it's not only about the hands. You obviously need to consider the lie, any trees or obstacles in the way, and your trajectory. And all of those require some adjustment. There isn't really a stock shot where the only thing that changes is your setup. If you hit your 7 iron 160. How often do you have a 160 yard shot with a perfect lie, with no wind at the right temperature. Rarely. Golf is a game of adjustment and calculating, but that is where feel is great. Visualizing the shot, feeling it, and then executing it, seems a lot simpler for me then figuring out whether I need to hit my 7 iron 90%, 85%, 72% or really go after it and hit 112%. I think feel can actually do those types of calculations faster and more accurately than trying to figure them out "consciously". And that's what this exercise is really about. In my practice session todayI was able to alternate hitting high fades and high cuts accurately simply by feeling what my hands needed to do. It was the first time I had ever felt I had so much control with the driver. As far as whether video is more correct than feeling, I think what counts is getting it in the hole more efficiently. If you are not getting the results you are looking for, then you need to look at your approach. But if it's working, why worry about how it looks on video? That could be sending you down the wrong path.

[Zeph]

If you align the same way for a fade and draw, great, but I don't want to. If I stand the same way and hit three different shots, that means I'll have to feel three different swings. I don't see how that is easier than aligning different and hitting the same shot three times.
Distance is regulated by how far on the grip I hold my club and length of backswing. Never said I got mechanical positions there.

If there is wind, I might hit a fade or draw to ride or cut into it, same thing. A bad lie is a bad lie, I still have to hit the ball first, no difference there. Why do you assume that just because I value video feedback to correct flaws that I can't adjust from shot to shot without a mirror behind me? Like I said, video is used to find the proper position, and from there learn the feeling. Once you get there, and can consistently hit the ball, hitting draw and fade is a lot easier.

[zenchili]

If you align the same way for a fade and draw, great, but I don't want to. If I stand the same way and hit three different shots, that means I'll have to feel three different swings. I don't see how that is easier than aligning different and hitting the same shot three times.

For the past six months I've used video almost every day, I've actually been one of the biggest fans of video. But the results I'm getting have shown me that there are other ways too. If you are successful with video that's great. I don't want to take that away from you. And if it works for you, even better. I never said you can't adjust from shot to shot. I'm sure that you can. Also, I'm not using a mirror behind me either.

Now, you said something up feeling three different swings. I know it seems like that's the way it is, but it really isn't. The only thing I'm feeling to make those changes, is how my hands feel. And it's actually subtle feelings. It's not a big change at all. I guess it's hard to describe if you haven't exeprienced it. But for me, at least, it has really simplified the game. At the same time my accuracy, distance control, and ability to work the ball has increased. That's why I'm excited about it. I'm not telling you have to change, I would never presume to know what's better for you. All I'm saying is there are people who can benefit from a change like this, and I'm one of them.

[Zeph]

What do you do different when hitting a straight shot, fade and draw?

[zenchili]

What do you do different when hitting a straight shot, fade and draw?

Basically the routine is the same for all three shots. I address the ball and visualize the trajectory, and curve. Then I kind of let my body figure out what my hands need to do. When it feels right, I know it, and then I reproduce that feeling on the actual swing. It probably sounds strange, but thats the routine. But getting to the point where I can trust the feeling has taken a few days. As I've done this, I've become more sensitive to the subleties of the feelings. So that whatever shot I visualize, I then know when it feels right. I'm not sure how to describe it better than that. It's like asking a basketball player, when you're 10 feet from the basket, or at the 3 point line, how do you know how far to shoot the ball? I'd bet they tell you, they just feel it. I think golf is more like that than most people realize.

[Zeph]

Distance feel is easier than swing path and club face angle. Everyone can throw a ball at different distances, but how many people can hit a golf ball with a square swing path and descending club on their first try? Golf cannot be compared to throwing something, it is a far easier movement. Everyone can swing a baseball bat or use a hammer. The golf swing is between those two, and vastly harder. Some people may be able to try and fail and at some point figure it out, but to me it sounds like too much work. It's the same as using an instructor, he is looking at what you do and correcting you. The more frequently you have lessons, the better, since the instructor can make sure you don't drift back to bad habits.

To hit a straight shot, you need an in-square-in swing path and square clubface.
To hit a fade, you need an out-to-in swing path and closed clubface.
To hit a draw, you need an in-to-out swing path and open clubface.

That is three different shots with the same alignment. Three different club face angles, or hand positions, and three different swing planes. Everything happens in half a second. If it works for you, great, but I do not advice relying on feel to swing the club differently.

[senorchipotle]

Around the same time that he recommended this, I've been talking to another pro in Dallas, who learned the game from Jimmy Demaret, Jackie Burke and Ben Hogan. I told him about the challenge I received and he thought it was a great idea too.

who is this guy if you don't mind me asking? does he still do public lessons?

[zenchili]

who is this guy if you don't mind me asking? does he still do public lessons?

His name is Eben Dennis. You can see his website

here .