Player Cavity Backs

[LuciusWooding]

  The Tin Man said:

Originally Posted by The Tin Man

Some of  the irons on the top of the Maltby list are as horrible in their own way as whats on the bottom,  Ultra Game Improvement  bananas on a stick.

Take it with a grain of salt, he uses his own system to grade them and it's numeric. Totally subject to what traits he considers important to playability. Even a low flighted iron with a high MOI can be considered a low playability club. Now, a narrow soled iron with little offset is more playable in terms of setup and workability, and smaller blades have their uses. Plus it penalizes a traditionally lofted club.

Those UGI irons of his might not have a big sweetspot or high MOI, as long as they have the wide sole, CG location, offset, etc. That's what it's based off of.

[hongman]

I'll chime in with shout out to Srixon and Wilson.  I've got some TM r7 tp's.... they are OK and relatively forgiving versus a pure blade, but my Srixon i506's are much better IMHO.  I haven't had a chance to try out the new Z TX's, but they look sweet to my eye!

[dennbb]

I have a set of AC-108's I have had for decades.  I have owned many different clubs over the years buying into the clubs can make my game better. I finally figured out that if all the company claims were true about their new and improved clubs I would be hitting my driver 500 yards and would be a -15 handicap. I come to the conclusion that hands down the best Irons I ever hit were AC-108's and Hogan Directors.  I wouldn't recommend them to a high handicapper or newby but if you can consistently hit near the sweetspot the AC-108's are deadly accurate and the ball stops on the green like a dropped cat.

[LuciusWooding]

  dennbb said:

I have a set of AC-108's I have had for decades.  I have owned many different clubs over the years buying into the clubs can make my game better. I finally figured out that if all the company claims were true about their new and improved clubs I would be hitting my driver 500 yards and would be a -15 handicap. I come to the conclusion that hands down the best Irons I ever hit were AC-108's and Hogan Directors.  I wouldn't recommend them to a high handicapper or newby but if you can consistently hit near the sweetspot the AC-108's are deadly accurate and the ball stops on the green like a dropped cat.

Welcome to the sandtrap!

I have a set of the very same irons that my grandfather used to own and I learned to play on them; I think my current irons are much better overall though. They aren't distance irons, in fact the lofts are pretty similar to the AC108s, but they launch a bit higher and the sole design is better. In my opinion the AC108s are somewhat forgiving in terms of the size of the sweet spot, a bit more so than blades due to the heel/toe weighting. But they have such sharp leading edges, and negative bounce and a very narrow and flat sole so that they tend to dig and don't have enough weight low on the club to launch it high like many of today's irons. To hit them properly I find I need to open them up a good bit to expose a bit of bounce, and hitting them even a little bit thin will make you regret it. I'd imagine skulling one of the old balata balls with a leading edge that sharp must have cut a lot of covers. That said, they do spin pretty well and they feel crisp on well struck shots. Plus since they are stainless they don't have much wear on them despite being 20 years older than I am. Maybe if I come across a cheap set of dynamic golds I might reshaft them, though I understand they might be pinned or something in the hosel. If I did use them, I'd definitely switch to a softer ball though to cushion the impact a bit. I've also come across some older Hogans and they feel really nice as well.

If I were to play a tougher iron, I'd probably stick with mizuno blades. They just feel so much softer than the titleists on any kind of contact, and they look beautiful. But I hit the ball a lot better with my current set (Maltby TE) which are component heads of a forged cavity back style. I don't think I need more technology than that in my irons but the cavity definitely helps my game enough to keep the blades out of the bag for now.

[dennbb]

Feel is a funny thing. I tried a new Ping 2 iron a couple or years ago at the range/golf store, It felt like I was hitting a bowling ball but the ball took off like a rocket. I have an Old ADXII Graphite driver that feels like that too. I think a big part of feel is how you hit it.

[LuciusWooding]

  dennbb said:

Feel is a funny thing. I tried a new Ping 2 iron a couple or years ago at the range/golf store, It felt like I was hitting a bowling ball but the ball took off like a rocket. I have an Old ADXII Graphite driver that feels like that too. I think a big part of feel is how you hit it.

That's true, and I find a big part of the feel in irons and especially wedges is how the sole interacts with the turf. Even on equivalent good strikes, different clubs will sound and feel different and some players prefer a different feel. I like my irons to feel soft and not be loud like, for example, taylormade irons. For woods I'm all about performance though.

Also, to answer your related question in http://thesandtrap.com/t/15359/very-old-irons#post_960719 this thread, the AC108 were some of the first cavity back irons, and also the first I know of that featured tungsten inserts and heel/toe weighting. Those features are common now, but they are implemented a bit better since the manufacturers have learned to measure the performance of clubs rather than going on theory and feel. Of course, they did this by studying the design of the best clubs and copying what features they did right.

Here are my 3 different 6 irons; on the left is the mizuno MP68 I use for practice at times which is a true blade. Though it has no cavity or weights in it, the majority of the steel is low near the sole and behind the sweet spot, which means it feels and sounds great and the ball gets some added launch. In the middle is the Maltby TE which is the set I play, this one has a touch of lead tape to get the head weight right and it is considered a players design in terms of appearance but the distribution of weight in the head and the location of the cavity is based on more modern designs since we understand the physics behind clubs so much better than in years past. On the right is the AC108 which you know. That raised bar across the cavity between the two weights is distinctive but it would be better off as low on the head as possible, as would the tungsten weights. When the weight of the clubhead is concentrated too high it causes very low shots and the sweet spot can be above the center of the ball which isn't ideal because it leaves less margin for error.