Perfect Swing - Summary

[Taggsy]

You'll find this inspired line in The Golfing Machine.
You don't even have to look very far to find it, it's in the introduction.

Homer Kelley describes a perfect swinging machine and lists its characteristics.
This is characteristic number six;

"The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other."

This is a profound piece of information- and something you'll wish you learned a long time ago if you didn't already know.
At address the plane line is where the shaft of your club points to the floor. It's only an inch or so behind the target line, which goes through the ball towards the target. The plane line is parallel to the target line.

This plane line runs in a straight line infinitely, towards the target and away from it.

At every point in your swing, either the top of the shaft (where the club head is), or the bottom of the shaft (where you're holding the club) should be pointing directly at that line.
Except when the clubshaft is parallel to the plane line (and if you're playing off flat land, parallel to the ground).

This simple visualization enables you to check your swing is on plane so long as you're aware of where the ball and your target is.

Next time you're at the range or playing on a flat surface, use this information to check your swing at the three points when the clubshaft is parallel to the ground;

On the backswing, the downswing, and followthrough- when the shaft is parallel to the ground, it should also be parallel to the target line. If it's not, you're off plane.

[iacas]

This simple visualization enables you to check your swing is on plane so long as you're aware of where the ball and your target is.

As important as this concept is, you can be WAY off plane and still be pointing at the line. That's just one checkpoint and is nowhere near the ultimate and only guide.

On the backswing, the downswing, and followthrough- when the shaft is parallel to the ground, it should also be parallel to the target line. If it's not, you're off plane.

That's an important checkpoint, but it's only two dimensional. If I point the club shaft parallel to the target line and lift my hands up to level with my shoulders I'm WAY off the plane but the shaft is parallel to both the ground and the target line.

People forget that the plane is an angle running anywhere between the shaft plane (at address) to the shoulder plane if you're okay with lifting during the swing, with a one-plane swing ideally being right on the elbow plane (once the right arm folds). Draw those lines and they're quite a bit more "in" than almost every golfer gets his hands.

[Taggsy]

As important as this concept is, you can be WAY off plane and still be pointing at the line. That's just one checkpoint and is nowhere near the ultimate and only guide.

They're great points, but you've separated the characteristic into two individual parts; one being that the shaft always points to the plane line, and the other being that the shaft becomes parallel with the plane line.

You're right that you can be pointing to the plane line and be way off plane. Take my own "over the top" swing for example. On the downswing, I'm still pointing at the plane line despite being off plane, but when the shaft reaches parallel with the ground, it is not parallel with the plane line. With your other example, of reaching shoulder height with a parallel shaft, assuming the shaft was pointed at the plane line at all other times but parallel with it, that position could only be achieved with completely extended arms at address and no wrist action at all on the backswing or the downswing. Clearly that's a very weak swing- but it would still be on plane, albeit a very steep one! So as far as I can tell (correct me if I'm wrong, or missing something!), you'd be on plane throughout the whole swing if the shaft always points at the plane line (except when parallel to it) AND the shaft is parallel to the plane line when not pointing at it.

[DownAndOut]

Was just doing searches about 'Swing Plane'  and saw this old thread. I've been reading up on some TGM stuff and just realised that my perception of swing plane is completely wrong. I should be striving to get the club swinging close to the clubshaft address plane (should really be the plane from the clubface sweetspot extended through the butt end - I think!!!). So in theory, one can still have the 2 ends of the clubshaft pointing on that 'base plane line'  on various planes . That even if I swung the club pointing on the 'base plane line' with a square 'leading edge' at impact , if my swing plane was higher or lower than the optimal clubshaft address plane, I could still push or pull the ball off target (because the normal to the clubface would be pointing right or left). 

Edited November 23, 2016 by DownAndOut

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, DownAndOut said:

Was just doing searches about 'Swing Plane'  and saw this old thread. I've been reading up on some TGM stuff and just realised that my perception of swing plane is completely wrong. I should be striving to get the club swinging close to the clubshaft address plane (should really be the plane from the clubface sweetspot extended through the butt end - I think!!!). So in theory, one can still have the 2 ends of the clubshaft pointing on that 'base plane line'  on various planes . That even if I swung the club pointing on the 'base plane line' with a square 'leading edge' at impact , if my swing plane was higher or lower than the optimal clubshaft address plane, I could still push or pull the ball off target (because the normal to the clubface would be pointing right or left). 

There's a lot more to it than that. The shaft droops, for example, and you can set up at address with the shaft above or below the plane on which you'll hit the ball. Plus, the shaft is often leaning farther forward, the path is almost never 0°… and so on. Golfers rarely swing the shaft on the setup shaft plane.

Eventually, the club is on "A" plane if it hits the ball, of course.

Also, the plane bends and contorts throughout the swing. From just before to just after impact it's pretty planar, but that's largely because of the lack of time for it to bend or warp much.

TGM is like 50 years old. Get some new information. Homer would have updated it a hundred times since then if he was still alive.

[DownAndOut]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

There's a lot more to it than that. The shaft droops, for example, and you can set up at address with the shaft above or below the plane on which you'll hit the ball. Plus, the shaft is often leaning farther forward, the path is almost never 0°… and so on. Golfers rarely swing the shaft on the setup shaft plane.

Eventually, the club is on "A" plane if it hits the ball, of course.

Also, the plane bends and contorts throughout the swing. From just before to just after impact it's pretty planar, but that's largely because of the lack of time for it to bend or warp much.

TGM is like 50 years old. Get some new information. Homer would have updated it a hundred times since then if he was still alive.

Many thanks . Yes , just found another video via Clay Ballard explaining various things:

1. Shaft droop

2. Upward force/lift on the arms as they try to line up with the swinging shoulders

plus

3.Because of the shaft droop , there is a coupling upward force on the hands which make them rise a bit too.

No doubt TGM needs updating but it might be good just to get a feel for the physics/geometry of the swing (albeit incomplete).

Forgot to add that the 'Ballard'  video says it is the elbow plane rather than the clubshaft address plane .

Edited November 23, 2016 by DownAndOut

[iacas]

3 hours ago, DownAndOut said:

3.Because of the shaft droop , there is a coupling upward force on the hands which make them rise a bit too.

I don't know about that, and be careful about saying things like "upward force on the hands".

The clubhead weighs a lot and at impact and exerts a very real downward force on the hands. The hands, correspondingly, exert an upward force on the grip of the club… because they have to, or the club would be in motion. The upward force the hands exert on the grip is literally just holding onto the club paired with a small amount of actual upward motion (the hands begin moving upward from the bottom of their arc, which is behind the clubhead's bottom-of-arc - typically the hands bottom is mid trail thigh, give or take).

3 hours ago, DownAndOut said:

Forgot to add that the 'Ballard'  video says it is the elbow plane rather than the clubshaft address plane .

Be careful. As you know, there's no one way to swing a golf club.

[DownAndOut]

On 11/23/2016 at 2:40 PM, iacas said:

I don't know about that, and be careful about saying things like "upward force on the hands".

The clubhead weighs a lot and at impact and exerts a very real downward force on the hands. The hands, correspondingly, exert an upward force on the grip of the club… because they have to, or the club would be in motion. The upward force the hands exert on the grip is literally just holding onto the club paired with a small amount of actual upward motion (the hands begin moving upward from the bottom of their arc, which is behind the clubhead's bottom-of-arc - typically the hands bottom is mid trail thigh, give or take).

Be careful. As you know, there's no one way to swing a golf club.

Many thanks Iacas

You mentioned that TGM needs updating . What in your opinion are the top 5  issues that have made it outdated?

[Ernest Jones]

17 hours ago, DownAndOut said:

Many thanks Iacas

You mentioned that TGM needs updating . What in your opinion are the top 5  issues that have made it outdated?

I'm not Erik, but I'd say the advent of high-speed cameras alone warrants a revision. 

[iacas]

11 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

I'm not Erik, but I'd say the advent of high-speed cameras alone warrants a revision. 

Yeah.

Too many things to list specifically, and not really the topic here in this thread.

TBH, I don't remember the last time I opened and read my copies of TGM.